Is the act of romantically approaching women out of date?
Is the act of romantically approaching women out of date?
“In the entire dataset, 29% of men said they never approached a woman in person before. 27% said it had been more than one year. This was larger for men in the age 18-25 group: 45% had never approached a woman in person,” according to the study.
A majority of single males surveyed reported fear as the main reason they do not approach women for dates in person. Fear of rejection and fear of social consequences were the two most common responses.
The data highlights a growing concern in the United States and abroad — loneliness. A 2023 report from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services found that almost half of U.S. adults report “measurable levels of loneliness.”
It's interesting to say the least. It seems as though the social repercussions and rejection are the most profound reason. While the fear of rejection is easy enough to digest. But I think the fear or social consequences is a relatively new construct.
From what I understand it's the fear of being viewed as a creep to approach a woman out of the blue. Which to me, is reasonable enough. But I don't think I have ever heard my old man or anyone of his generation bringing this to the table.
Yet I do remember asking my friends about picking up hints and whether or not men are really that bad at it. And most them saying the just don't want to risk misinterpreting it.
Perhaps there is an argument to be made that approaching women like this, has fallen out of social fashion. What do you guys think?
p.s. I hope this is casual enough of a conversation. I kinda screwed up my last one, I admit.
Edit: Here is a more detailed paper on the survey for those that are interested
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I feel like this whole conversation is so alienating. You talk to people. You interact with people. Some of them are women. Some of the women you interact with are really cool. Maybe you find them attractive. So you say, "hey I know this is kind of a random encounter, but I'd like to see you again. Is there any chance we could hang out and go see a movie or get dinner or something?"
You aren't making first contact with an alien species. It's just people. Someone you're interested in, who might be interested in you. Don't bring a whole lot of baggage to the dance, just see if they want to go out. Have something in mind to do.
Maybe that's how you could spend your off time. Engage in something creative. Have tickets to a show or a play or something that you do regularly that you can invite them along on. Listen to live music at some venue. Go to a pokémon tournament if that's your bag. Just something you can invite them along to, and if they don't want to come ask what they want to do.
Perhaps you're right. Maybe we are dissecting a casual social affair a little too much. But then again I do wonder, what do you make of the 45% statistic?
I think the survey is talking about talking to strangers, which is always difficult. I've been a salesman several different times, including car sales, and it's hard to connect with a stranger. But it isn't a skill one needs to learn.
What would make you approach a woman you've never met or spoken to? It could only be her looks, and she knows that. So instantly you're shallow, to say the least.
Don't do that. Just get involved in things that are coed in life; work, church, clubs, theater, classes, you name it. Natural socialization. Be yourself. Have fun doing things, then look around at the people having fun with you. And just talk to them.
Let's stop idolizing pick-up artists. Because they ARE creepy.
https://datepsychology.com/risk-aversion-and-dating/
I did some digging and according to this. 77% of women 18 - 30 want to be approached more. I don't know about pick up artists. But I wonder if a respectful way of approaching women could in fact be taught.
Maybe. I'm not in that age group and the women that age who I know do not express any desire to be approached randomly. But I think it's always going to feel odd to be asked out by someone you don't know, and maybe there's a disconnect between who they might want to be doing the asking, and who is.
I will agree our society is missing both physical non-sexual connection (hugging, etc) and good conversation that might lead to connection, small talk is a skill not a talent. But the answer is NEVER to impose these things on an unwilling participant. So one of the skills that need to be taught is discernment or empathy - being aware of the people around you, reading the signals. Listening, not just talking in what you think is a generic respectful way.
They want to be approached by their generic ass Prince or pretty fuck boy. Not regular ass, awkward me and others.
I've seen you on other posts here. I am going to be candid here. You need therapy. You have a very negative view of yourself, external locus of control, low self-worth, and low self-esteem.
Women aren't some unique species with singular interests. They don't all want a generic ass prince. Most women I have met simply want someone with similar interests, makes them feel wanted, and makes them feel important and valued. Having someone attractive is a plus, but most of that isn't physical. The more emotionally attracted someone is to another the more physically attractive they perceive the person.
Note that NOTHING I said women want is dependent on what you have, how you look, or where you live. It's ALL about how you treat them.
If you treat them like all they want is some generic prince or fuck boy, why should they want to get to know you? Just treat them like a normal person that has their own interests and desires and not that of some "all women" generalizations you keep repeating.
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Dude, that's the low self-worth speaking. You don't even know if others will find you interesting so you don't even try. Plenty of women like video games. Plenty of women like music. And they like to talk about those games and the music that enjoy.
And you're right, making them feel wanted isn't enough. Appreciated, valued, and comfortable and also needed. And not just physically wanted. You want them around because you enjoy their company and who they are.
Oh I know, I've been in this earth for 30 plus years playing videogames and similars, nobody came
Whoa, how is it shallow to be attracted to someone's looks? What a weird take. We're not doing married at first sight.
Yeah, there's something about a person you find attractive and you want to get to know them better.
You've found your fun circle and talked them up and down. Now how do I pick one to pursue romantically? Can't do how attractive I find them because that's apparently shallow. Do I try a random lottery? Or the order I first met them?
It's shallow to be attracted to someone ONLY because of their looks. Which is what is happening when you approach a woman you've never met because you like her looks.
You have a fun circle... and you are going to "PICK ONE" to get involved romantically with?
My brother, that ain't how it works.
It's shallow to stay in a relationship with someone only because of their looks. You can be attracted to any adult for any reason despite what any sanctimonious third-party says. Maybe you are demisexual but you don't get to prescribe propriety for other people anymore than heterosexuals do.
And, yes, that is how it works in most place when the conversation was and still remains about approaching women romantically. You say "hmm, this one vibes with me the most so I'll try to date her exclusively". Unless y'all agree to be polyamorous.
I'll apologize if you were just throwing in a suggestion about how to just make friends into an unrelated topic.
But I'm losing motivation to continue.
That's a shit take. If you don't know the person and don't have anyone that knows the person, that means you shouldn't approach them?
It's perfectly normal to find someone attractive. You can then learn to know the person and both can decide what to do of that relationship.
What is not acceptable is being insistent when the person says no, and breaching boundaries without getting consent.
Approach anyone you want. But if you're cold calling you've got some hurdles to clear.
Agree. This kind of thing only ever seems to come up in regards to to heterosexual dating and it really imo diminishes the entire whole complex humans that are on both sides of the hypothetical interaction. You’re not talking to ~A Woman~* you’re talking to a person, who might or might not like you depending on 8374684 possible factors about the situation or their/your personality.
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If you don't like anything that sounds like depression. Or just... I can't say this nicely... Really boring? Why would I want to hang out with someone who has no interests , hobbies, or passions? Nevermind go on a date with them.
I dunno, my mother married a boring man for 11 years. Why not me? Then she re married another boring man, less responsible and with alcoholic problems. Again, why not me?
Was he boring to her? Were they happy?
Is what your parents had what you're aiming for?
For a while they were. Then money problems arrived
So then he wasn't boring to her and they ran into other issues....
No, my father always had been the same
Get this - if they don't have similar interests it probably wasn't going to work anyway.
If you don't like anything, never go out, how would somebody every get to meet and know you? And I don't mean go out partying or anything, I mean literally go out.
I dunno. But I can't force myself to become something I don't wanna be. What's worse being a shut in or being miserable outside faking a smile when you're suffering and cringing thinking "why I'm here?"
I went out to the park, movies, arcades alone for years. I'm done, if the world hates me this much then there's nothing I can do about it.
Those are things that you can do alone. Do some things that you CAN'T do alone. Interact with people. A league. A club. A help group. Anything that isn't solitary.
It's good to have an idea of what you're doing when you're talking to someone, other than "trying to get laid" lol.
Listen when others are talking to you (MEN & WOMEN! you need the practice) for something personal they're sharing. Try to ask a short follow-up question that allows them to elaborate.
While they're talking just say something innocuous like "okay" so they know your there but you're not interrupting. Let them talk. Nobody lets other people talk these days. We pay therapists so that someone will listen to us.
You'll be a breath of fresh air if you listen to people. Treat their story like a privilege, because it is. The more they say to you, the more trust they are investing in you. So be worthy of it. And don't worry about the end result.
Getting laid is what happens when you're focused on someone else, not yourself.
I dunno if I believe any of that, I only believe that I've been alone for 30 plus years of my life and that I don't deserve this, I'm not an awful person, I'm just boring, thats it. And I don't talk to women, I'm not creepy, the idea of being embarrassed is too much.
I am an existentialist. Existence precedes essence.
I believe meaning is created in the world, it's something we must make. I do not believe meaning is provided for us.
According to Friedrich Nietzsche, “He who has a WHY to live can bear almost any HOW.” We must determine the WHY. For Victor Frankel in "Man's Search For Meaning," the why was to survive the Nazi death camp and be reunited with his wife who was in another death camp.
We all must have our WHY, or we drift aimlessly through life. But the good things is, we are not meant to FIND the WHY, we are meant to CREATE it.
PS. It's okay to be boring, but don't be bored when people are talking to you.
It doesn't sound like you hate going out, just being alone. Being out alone can suck, but the loneliness can't be fixed without effort.
things will get better again, my friend. keep your pride to yourself, if you're too afraid to show it, but keep it anyways.
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You're talking with people right now. That is all we're saying - find a group of people and just talk.
Well, I think we're people. Can never be sure.
Dude. Online interactions like these don't count at all. Anonymously being here protect us all from harm. I don't consider this a social activity at all. And it won't affect my real life
Im curious - what do you think tinder (or grindr) start from? Pics sure, but after that?
What, those apps that never work and ask you for a lot of money? Also they sell your info and I don't feel like putting my face online.
Can't disagree with last point, what doesn't with your second to last.
Are they full of bots - yes. But people wouldn't be still returning if they didn't work. I know multiple couples that got together because of them, and its apparently something like 35% of couples are getting together that way. Others being uni, friends or work usually.
Look, im not you and you take what you will. You're choices are realistically keep doing the same thing and get the same results, or change something and get different results. Could be better, could be worse, and only one way to find out. Joys of being human.
the world hates me this much then there’s nothing I can do about it.
There's a lot you can do about it, but you seem intent on not doing any of it.
I only know that I don't deserve this.
Why not? Why do you deserve friends and companionship without doing the slightest bit of work?
Loving someone requires effort already. I don't ask anything else, I don't ask you to like videogames or being into the music I like. I don't ask you to be generically attractive or to drag you into knowing my family. Why should you do the same to me?
That doesn't answer why you deserve a relationship when you're not putting effort in.
I already said it requires effort.
You do not seem to be making any effort.
What do you love about someone? And what effort do you put in?
And if you are trying to be in a relationship, especially a long term one, and you don't want to meet their family, that's gonna be a no from like 99% of people
There are very few people who are gonna marry someone who does not take any interest in their life, their family, or their friends.
Who is this us you speak of? Do you have zero interests in life? Nothing that you like doing? If that is the case, that really does sound like depression and I hope you are able to get help for it