Just a quick comment to say that the new artwork in v2.5 is awesome! Beyond the visuals, it helps to keep the mood between levels. Great work, evan (and the artists!).

For a while now, I've been playing with a self-imposed challenge: don't use or equip any melee, ranged, or armor item above a certain tier. Higher tier items can only be picked up and sold, or be thrown into traps and doors.

I completed a Tier-3 challenge (with the swarm intelligence challenge) with a gladiator. Then I did a Tier-2 challenge with a sniper. Then I did a semi-T1 challenge, where I allowed a sniper to have a T2 ranged weapon (since the only T1 ranged weapon available to her is not upgradable and not transmutable).

At that point I became convinced that a pure T1 run was impossible. Several comments in my previous posts convinced me otherwise, so I decided to keep trying.

I tried again with a sniper (using a puny dart), and died in level 21. Tried with a battlemage a few times, once dying in level 23. Tried with a warden, and died in level 24, right in front of the stairs going down to lvl 25!

I just tried with a warden again, and this time I was successful! The key was getting a RoSS and a RoH. I had never tried kiting before, but it turns out to be a very powerful technique (but a bit boring). It consumes a ton of food, though, but I was lucky again and scored a horn of plenty early on.

I had a blocking enchantment on the bow (don't love it, but useful). The bow was also enhanced for speed. The cloth armor was enhanced for evasion (since it can't even reduce damage from a mosquito).

I also had luck with the wands, even though I only found three in the entire dungeon. First wand, from the mage in the jail, was regrowth +2. I hate this wand, even though many people love it. I transmuted it and got (arghh!!) a wand of magic missile. Luckily (again!) I found another transmutation scroll and this time I got a wand of lightning (yayy!!).

Later on I found a wand of disintegration +2 and another WoL +0, which were useful to harass enemies.

I wasn't super thorough clearing up every level, especially in the demon halls, but I didn't try to rush through the dungeon either. I ended up with 402 kills, level 29, and all SoU and strength potions.

I'm very happy to finally be able to show that a T1 run is possible (even though it requires a ton of luck). I'm going to take a break from SPD for a while (this time for real, I swear!), but I'll keep reading this forum. I'd love to see reports of others trying similar challenges (and I'll try to answer any questions as well).

I've completed a tier-3 run with one challenge (https://lemmy.world/post/18859193) and a tier-2 run with no challenges (https://lemmy.world/post/19011489). The idea is to play without ever using or equipping any items (armor, melee or thrown weapons) above the specified tier.

Since then, I've been trying to complete a tier-1 run, without success. Since tier-1 armor is laughable, I think there are two feasible strategies: (1) avoid getting hit, and (2) be able to take a lot of damage.

In my experience, strategy (2) is not really viable. Melee heroes (duellist and warrior) cannot really sustain the damage taken in the jail. A Monk or a Berserker might conceivably win the game with tier-1 items, but the problem is getting past Tengu. Also, they can normally rely on high-tier thrown weapons.

Going back to strategy (1), I had more success with a Rogue, making it to the first level of the dwarven city without too much trouble. I never made it past level 16, though. The ghouls hit too hard! Also, when facing four ghouls, the Rogue is just not quick enough to kill them before they revive and hit again.

This left me with one option: the Sniper. There is one problem, though: the sniper needs a thrown weapon (not her bow) to activate her lethal volleys. However, the only one tier-1 thrown weapon that the sniper can get is uncoated darts, and they cannot be upgraded nor transmuted!

My conclusion is that it is impossible to win the game with only tier-1 equipment. So I relaxed the challenge to using only tier-1 armor and melee weapons, and allowing one tier-2 melee weapon. With this combination, I was able to win the game!

I had a very lucky run with good wands, and found a couple of shurikens early on. These are ideal to avoid damage, since the sniper gets effectively four shots (one shuriken and three arrows) before the enemy can reply. Nothing except a boss can survive those four shots. I also got a projecting bow early on (just like in my tier-2 run). Projecting bows are so awesome!

Still, the run was super difficult, since at times I couldn't avoid melee combat. A succubus could take me from full health to almost dead in three hits, and dying in the demon halls is all too easy even with high-tier items.

Regarding my claim that a 100% tier-1 run is impossible, I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm pretty sure someone with more skill than I can probably do it.

A few days ago I obtained the amulet using only tier-3 equipment (https://lemmy.world/post/18859193). I've been trying to win with tier-2 items, and today I finally made it! (No challenges active).

My rule is simple: items identified in their description as tier 3, 4 or 5 cannot be equipped, ever.

I tried ten times or so with a gladiator, but the leather armor is just too weak. I couldn't make it past the first couple of floors in the dwarven city; I was taking too much damage, and was drinking potions of healing as if they were water in the desert.

I realized that a melee play style is unsustainable with leather armor. I decided to try to keep enemies away and kill them using ranged weapons. This means, of course, a sniper.

In this run, I was lucky to get:

• a grim enchantment for the bow
• entanglement on the armor
• an elastic handaxe
• a bumper wand
• a ring of arcana
• the ethereal chains

I'm not sure I could have won without that combination. Despite having a leather armor (blocking a laughable 4-12 damage), I ended up with 14 potions of healing.

One of the main difficulties of a tier-2 run is that there is simply very little tier-2 equipment in the dungeon! In some runs I wouldn't find a leather armor, or a good weapon, or neither. I think the best bet is to pray the ghost drops something useful, but more often than not, the drops are either not upgraded or higher tier.

Anyway, it was fun! I may decide to do a tier-1 run sometime, but I need to take a few weeks rest from SPD first.

I wanted to see if the game was beatable with tier-3 equipment. The rule is simple: never equip any item whose description includes "tier-4" or "tier-5".

It turns out it's possible! I played with a gladiator, and the "swarm intelligence" challenge.

My weapon was a sword +1 (best tier-3 weapon that I could find), upgraded to +6 and augmented with a kinetic enchantment.

The armor was a chain mail +2 (again, best I could find), upgraded to +13 and with an anti-magic glyph.

I was lucky to find a good selection of rings. The RoF +3 was a gift from the imp in level 17 or 18, so I only had it for the final floors. The RoE was found at +0. The RoW helped in the first half of the game, and the RoM provided lots of bonus damage to my low-tier equipment.

I was also lucky to get a WoC +3 from the wizard. The WoF is always useful to slow down opponents.

The entire run was done without any help from artifacts. The ToF is the only artifact I found in the entire dungeon, and that was in level 19. Since I had stashed four or five Scrolls of Magic Mapping, I never used the Talisman.

In the end, it wasn't too difficult. What I missed most was the feeling of power from one-shotting mobs with a well-upgraded tier-5 weapon while feeling invulnerable with a plate armor.

I'm going to try a Tier-2 run next (with a similar rule), maybe without challenges. I haven't decided what class to use. Has anyone tried it before?

All my wins have been with tier-4 and tier-5 equipment. I want to see if I can win with only tier-3 items. My rules are never to equip anything above tier-3, not even thrown weapons. Playing with a gladiator, who is about to go down to level 13, with the swarm intelligence challenge.

Has anyone tried something similar? Do you think it's possible to win with only tier-2 or (gasp) tier-1 equipment?

Update: I'm about to start level 19, still with a sword +1, and with a mail +8 of anti-magic. It's amazing how far a tier-3 +1 weapon can take you!

Update 2: Run complete! See https://lemmy.world/post/18859193

It took me a long time to finally make it! Swarm intelligence + hostile champions + badder bosses, with a sniper.

I was lucky to get a projecting bow and a brimstone armor (plate). I don't know if I'd have survived the burning fist + dark fist combo without it.

Finished with 17 healing potions. What's the most others have finished with?

• Playing with a sniper.
• No challenges.
• The armor is scale +6 (there's been a lot of discussion about plate vs scale lately). The RoE and the shield help a lot, though.
• I got the RoS +4 from the imp in level 18 or thereabouts. A shuriken followed by a 3-shot volley killed everything before they even had a chance to reply.

My sniper was dominating level 23 with a tomahawk +8 and a speed-enhanced bow. Facing off three or four death eyes and scorpios (playing with swarm intelligence on), suddenly the tomahawk went spiraling down into the abyss! I think the sniper had lost line of sight to her target, and the tomahawk bounced off a wall and down it went. I thought the run was lost!

Fortunately, the tomahawk was somewhere in level 24! After sacrificing a few seeds to the gods of the forest in thanks, she went on to close Yog-Dzewa's eye forever.

Now my question: is it always the case that items that fall into the abyss will be found in the level below?

!

I'd been trying for a while to have a mage ascend with two challenges (swarm intelligence + hostile champions), but after reading the comments here I decided to go with a sniper. It turns out to be super fun! I was able to finally ascend on my third try.

This was a particularly good run:

• I got three stones of enchantment. I used the first two on my bow. The first one was blazing (actually a curse IMO), the second was elastic (yes!)

• I got a couple of boomerangs early on. Upgraded boomerangs are awesome! I had to use telekinesis only a handful of times.

• The bow was enhanced for speed. Almost nothing can survive a +8 boomerang plus three shots, and only bosses can survive two rounds.

• I got an anti-magic plate +1 early on, and then a greatsword +1. My third SoE resulted in a grim sword -- awesome!

• I got the talisman of foresight and, in level 22 or 23, the ethereal chains.

Overall it was a ton of fun. I recommend trying out the sniper if you haven't already! (The seed was CNY-XQY-ZPF).

This is my mage at the end of dungeon level 9. He's level 13, and he also has two potions of healing. Two challenges are active (badder bosses and swarm intelligence). The unidentified scroll is not "remove curse" (nor "identify"). There are no more spells nor potions in the level-6 shop. The scale armor has a curse of displacement. How would you continue?

!

Update: I thought this was an interesting scenario, with several different ways to proceed with no obvious winner. Thank you to all who posted ideas; I hadn't considered most of them! SPD is such a complex game.

As to what I did: since BB Tengu is a PITA, I decided to dump 3 SoU on the scale armor; in addition, I was lucky and got a glyph of affection. I used the other 3 SoU on the staff, leaving the magic missile wand imbued and relying on its magic charge ability to pump the lightning and prismatic light wands. It was a hard fight but Tengu was free at last!

Then I made it through the caves without too much trouble. This is the mage at the store in level 16. I still have two SoU which I will probably use on the staff. I'd like to attempt finishing the game with an imbued wand of primatic light, which I've never been able to do before. Suggestions welcome!

!

I was playing with the badder bosses challenge. Fortunately a couple of wand zaps finished Tengu off before the mage was carbonized!

This was level 21 -- I'm glad to report that the mage made it all the way to the amulet.

I was having a great run with a mage. Found a leather armor +2, whip of shocking +2, a couple of rings and a good selection of wands, some even upgraded.

I was dominating level 13 in the caves. There, I found a treasure room with the pool and the piranhas. I readily gulped down my only invisibility potion and went for the treasure, hoping for a scale armor. I had saved 2 or 3 scrolls of upgrade and a couple of arcane styli waiting for the right armor to appear.

As I was making my way to the treasure chest, a gnoll brute and a gnoll shaman both entered the room. Trying to avoid them, I took too long to get back. Through bad luck and miscalculation, the potion ran out one step from the door, which was blocked by the brute.

So, I found myself facing three giant piranhas and two gnolls. I didn't have a teleport spell, and my stones of blink were useless as I was surrounded. I tried everything I could think of, and downed 11 (!) potions of healing and shielding, but I was taking too much damage. In the end, the mage succumbed to his wounds and the game was over.

I exited the game in frustration and swore not to try again in at least a week (not for the first time).

Five minutes later, to my horror, I realized I forgot that I had a seed of fadeleaf that might have saved me :-(

The scale armor was augmented for evasion; not even the scorpions could hit me. I waltzed through the demon halls without worries.

I also had a RoW +1 and a robber's armband, and at some point had more than 10,000 gold. I had never had more than 3,000 before. Overall, I collected almost 21,000 gold; all my previous wins hovered around 14,000.

There are three (!) stones of enchantment, not even in hidden rooms. And five experience potions!

Ascended with a score of 242,000, my best yet.

Seed: BSC-DPD-VGR

I can't find the way down! Am I going blind? Can the stairs be behind a secret door? I don't have any mapping spells or clairvoyance stones. Level 7, seed KXK-ZML-VGR. The room at the bottom of the map is closed.

Update: backtracked to a store and sold some stuff to get a spell of magic mapping. There were two secret doors on the west room woth the two columns. This is the first time this happens!

Say I was having a great run, when (as usual) made a mistake and ended up dead. I'd like to try again, but didn't save the seed. Is there a way to recover it?

I've played almost 100 runs, and two of them have been ended by a pitfall trap. On one hand, its existence helps keep SPD a punishing, unforgiving game in the Rogue-like tradition, but on the other, instant death is always frustrating. What are others' opinions?

It's by far the part of the game I like the least... there's always a couple of gold nuggets I can't seem to find. It's boring, and also frustrating to see my food supply dwindle.

First time! It's not too difficult, but just as the rest of the game, one mistake can mean game over (I was down to 4 HP at some point). I decided to try with the rogue first, since I think it's the easiest hero to play with, and the most powerful.