Saki @ Saki @monero.town

New to Lemmy. A privacy advocate. Interested in number theory.

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2 yr. ago

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They have ignored this request for almost 10 years. https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/935538-accounts-payments/suggestions/33188971-accept-monero-for-payment

Like 3 or 4 years ago, Seth said they might soon accept Monero, but they didn't either. Proton is not too bad, to be sure, but it's been really questionable in various ways too... Better late than never, though.

Cf. elsewhere https://l.opnxng.com/r/Monero/comments/1lmuhfi/proton_to_add_monero_support_with_1000_signatures/

I think they will be the first to have both digital ID and CBDC.

Or possibly Israel will be? Or China. Paying/Having cash may become illegal eventually.

The popularity of privacy increases as there is more and more surveillance, control and censorship by states. Privacy is also being talked about and worked towards in communities of other large networks, e.g. ADA and BCH.

Interestingly, even Zcash (a less used privacy coin) is like +60%/mo (whereas +70%/mo for Monero) against USD. A coincidence? Or a general trend?

Ah, AI-generated "cheap" text. That'd explain a lot!

In addition to what you've pointed out (which perhaps many Monero users agree with) such as the paper Monero issue, I'd say that fundamentally CEXes have this conflict of interest: they're supposed to help investors or whatever, help them become rich (as if that's the point). But reality is, often customers' losses are their profits - that's their (casino-like) business. In short, they essentially want you to lose your money. And in the first place, this investment aspect is not even the point of cryptocurrencies.

EU bans in 2027? - that's old news. Already in 2022: there were anonymous accounts ban in Lithuania for example (and the remarks by US Deputy Secretary of the Treasury about "unhosted wallets" too). Basically central entities have always wanted to regulate things centrally, but that's not how cryptos are supposed to work. I think XMR is one of the only few coins, still having this fundamental (admittedly, a bit idealistic) philosophy. Either way XMR is only a few "true" cryptos, actually being used (as opposed to just being traded as investment aka gambling). Because of that, some people, including myself, may tend to feel that Monero is essentially valuable and that the recent price movements are something that could have always happened (though, this unconscious assumption could be misleading too). So maybe... even though what's happening now might have been triggered by some criminals, that may have been just catalysts; the cause of these price actions may be intrinsic - because Monero is valuable, it's being valued. Perhpas a bit too optimistic view, but perhaps not entirely untrue either?

Cryptographically it'd be absurd to share your sec key with CEX ("hosted" wallet). Like 30-year-old PGP/GPG key-escrow debates yet again; or worse, not even escrow, CEX users don't even have their keys. Which feels so absurd. I've never once used CEXes, except I tried no-KYC web swaps a few times (but they too are CEXes, having the same fundamental problems). Obviously pure P2P DEX solutions feel much better and safer, where Alice and Bob are mathematically / trustlessly safe as in atomic swaps or via multisigs. DEXes (e.g. Bisq, Haveno) may be for-profict business too (no free lunch), but that's beside the point. Nevertheless, it's important to realize that everything, including "no-KYC" or "DEX" solutions, may become "sneaky" if not scammy.

Yeah, most probably. It's crazy, though: they're now saying that: privacy-by-default = bad, no-privacy = good. That's the EU for you?

That's possible. I happened to see these weird/questionable theories elsewhere, not really convincing:

"There are also rumors that major exchanges are thinking about relisting XMR, which, when combined with Monero's lower liquidity and more concentrated holdings, can lead to major price movements"

"Researchers say part of that growth is due to a shift in the U.S. regulatory tone. The FIT21 crypto bill is picking up steam, and the SEC is taking a step back from labeling privacy coins as securities. This seems to be helping the market out a bit. It looks like the easing of pressure has led to more money flowing back into assets like Monero"

"There is also a lot of excitement about Monero's upcoming FCMP++ upgrade, which is expected later this year."

https://u.today/xmr-explodes-past-350-is-monero-finally-back

"Perhaps ironically, the surge is being fueled by this regulatory purge."

[This may be right.]

"Monero's rise is reactive rather than entirely organic. Fearing censorship, there is a rush toward decentralization."

https://u.today/monero-xmr-surges-with-3900-volume-skyrocketing

I HATE Reddit with a passion (censorship, bots, using our posts to train their AI and sell it to Google and now CQS which punishes you even for connecting in a non-AML/KYC way ) and wish the entire community would just migrate here or somewhere else.

Yeah, when Monero.town was born, I had hoped and kind of expected that more people were coming here ! Freedom is the core value of Monero ; no surveillance ; no censorship ; no arbitrary freezing or blocking ! It was not entirely Monero.town's fault that that didn’t happen, that more people were not joining, except its Tor blocking was obviously preposterous, a show-stopper.

You can at least try a privacy-front end such as https://redlib.zaggy.nl/r/monero/ :) Looks like Reto isn't working very well now...

Try not to take things too personally. Tails devs explicitly said they were making it for regular people (activists, journalists, domestic violence victims, etc.) and mainly not for advanced users. So by design it's a normie-friendly OS (a user is not even expected to know how to use pgp); as such, one might generally assume its users may not be "geeks". Nothing personal there.

While asking questions and exchanging ideas are wonderful, one can also enjoy the freedom to study (one of the four essential freedoms), guessing, narrowing down a problem by trial and error. An attempt at solving the problem on one's own is often of great value, a great way to learn, even if it's unsuccessful; after that, one might be able to ask an even better question, which could be helpful for more people too. Either way, I think that most Monero users can happily agree with each other that we want a better version of bisq :) (Sorry if this comment is uncalled for.)

Maybe this is why no one ever posts here.

Imho (quite) a few users ditched monero.town when they had started blocking Tor.

For those who are still on Win 7: Firefox (and so Tor Browser) will stop supporting Win 7 soon. Seriously, you better plan to migrate to Linux. Not-so-good privacy issues aside, everyone knows Windows is not very secure/safe/convenient anyway.

Generally, votes are overrated. Especially if you’re not mainstream, by definition most people won’t support you, won’t agree with you, won’t understand you.

Some things may be downvoted because they’re too stupid. But occasionally, you might be downvoted simply because you’re a bit too early. Like, if you’d said “being gay is not crime” or something 50 years ago, you might have got downvoted… Just a thought.

Maybe what you’re thinking is like an XMR version of Bisq's “Get your first BTC” room?

https://bisq.wiki/Getting_your_first_BTC This dilemma is real and understandable, while it’s not clear what would be the best solution:

For new users, Bisq requires between 0.002 and 0.007 BTC for traders to make their first trade: [...] It can be difficult for new bitcoiners to acquire their first coins, so this requirement is often a barrier for new Bisq users. The Get your first BTC room offers one possible way to get this initial bitcoin without signing up for a centralized exchange.

Basically the same thing for Haveno, I guess.

Another bad experience related to Mastercard: https://monero.town/post/1791576

Cake Pay should be fine for most gift cards, I don’t think they usually ask for KYC for those.

So perhaps your recent bad experience with Mastercard EUR cards are rather exceptional?

Thanks for warning. Saw https://monero.town/post/872283 too. Guess Cake Pay may be convenient for those who are fine with KYC. Another option, that Stealths thing is more expensive (higher fees), so basically if you want to buy a gift card here or there, you’ll have to choose between (possible) KYC and higher fees. Or so it seems…

According to @azalty@monero.town, Cake Pay works fine if you’re fine with KYC, and otherwise you may just lose your money: https://monero.town/post/872283

If you’re a privacy advocate not fully supporting KYC but want to try this anyway, then try a small amount, because you may lose all your money. Another recent option is more privacy-friendly and KYC-free, but the fees are higher with them.

We know the ability to get Monero will not be essentially affected—after all, this is not the first time, nor the second time, when Monero is delisted. It seems reasonable to admit, though, that ultimately the ability/freedom to spend Monero might be limited if legit (e.g. hosting) companies can’t accept it in the future—directly or indirectly because of MiCA etc. Although, what will happen in such a situation may be seen as an interesting experiment.

Since the posted link is not very Tor-friendly behind CF, similar random links just in case…

• OKX exchange delists privacy coins, including Monero, Dash, and Zcash https://www.cryptopolitan.com/okx-delists-privacy-coins-monero-dash-zcash/

  Following the announcement, privacy tokens such as Dash (DASH), Monero (XMR), and Zcash (ZEC) witnessed a notable decline of up to 10%

• Important OKX Delisting Announcement Concerning Large Subset of Altcoins https://cryptopotato.com/important-okx-delisting-announcement-conrcening-large-subset-of-altcoins/

  The prices of some of these tokens have headed south shortly after the announcement. XMR is down nearly 3% in the past 24 hours, while ZEC has plunged by 10%

• Crypto Exchange OKX All Set to Delist Privacy Coins https://thenewscrypto.com/crypto-exchange-okx-all-set-to-delist-privacy-coins/
• Zcash and Monero on the chopping block for delisting https://www.cryptopolitan.com/naira-is-about-to-have-its-worst-year-ever/

The concept may be lovely, but the fact is, many people nowadays have been Pavlov’ed to immediately ignore anything weird that says, "Congratulations! You got some money. Visit this URL and input something." As they say, the Cake is a lie…

Monero could be a wonderful gift to a friend of yours if they’re especially interested in privacy (in that case, you might want to talk to them privately, and perhaps recommend a better wallet). Otherwise, it may be kind of like casting pearls before swine…

Trocador shows it explicitly whether a specific CEX is no-log or requiting IP logging, which you can choose. This new thing doesn’t have TOS nor Privacy Policy to begin with. Yet as long as you use onion, logging by the front-end is rather irrelevant.

Even if the front-end is not logging anything (which no one can verify), a CEX behind it surely records the tx and retains it as required by laws (some of them might be less than perfectly legal and might not record anything, though that would mean a different kind of risk). Using a CEX is more or less risky, be it Trocador or something else. Some may think that an instant swap by CEX is convenient. Personally I prefer DEX, even though it may be less convenient, even though Monero.town itself has an official affiliate link to Trocador too.

Asia might potentially be a better idea (not Japan or Korea though)

You mean, like Hong Kong, or India, maybe? What do you mean by “not Japan or Korea though”? I’d feel China would be worse. Privacy-focused services tend to be pricey anyway, both in Europe and in the US, and the price comparison is tricky as EUR/USD can move weirdly. If you’re talking about Njalla (Sweden), it’s indeed rather expensive.

Although France seems to be generally anti-cryptography, of course you wouldn’t go to jail just because you use Tails. There was this notorious incident related to French activists & Proton, though. Also, the Netherlands can be scary. They arrested a developer of Tornado Cash, right? Although, those things have nothing to do with VPS!

Thank you so much! These minor details are really helpful :D Happy holidays!