As the Elden Ring DLC beats the snot out of players, Hidetaka Miyazaki says toning difficulty down would "break the game itself"
As the Elden Ring DLC beats the snot out of players, Hidetaka Miyazaki says toning difficulty down would "break the game itself"
Elden Ring's director speaks on what makes the action RPG satisfying to play.
The gameplay is perfect. But how about just fixing the PC version with some basic things like…
- A setting to disable chromatic aberration.
- Fix the broken ultrawide support.
- Add remappable keybinds.
- Unlock the framerate.
- Add DLSS and FSR.
You know, basic, fundamental PC features.
Fromsoft PC ports have always been notoriously bad, but it blows my mind that after 15 years, they still don't support something as important as custom keybinds.
Bro, they have remapping keybind in their game, I don't know what you're on about.
Wait those are all issues? I may hold off on buying the game then.
But unfortunately you can't use this while playing online.
Flawless Ultrawide can also be used to fix most of those things, but in either case, EAC will block you from online play… which is, like, half the fun of a FS game.
The keybinds are mostly rebindable though actually? I play on mouse & keyboard with basically completely different setup than default.
From Soft PC ports definitely rough, though they have gotten a bit better each release
The game is not "difficult" per se, it's just that the underlying systems of how to make it easier aren't made explicit. You're meant to engage with it and learn how to create the advantages you need. It's supposed to be a process of learning and growth that feels rewarding and earned. Or read a guide.
It's honestly one of the easiest From games, once you engage with the particulars. Let me be clear: This isn't an elaborate "git gud". That began as an ironically bad opinion that inevitably became a genuine opinion held by fools.
Engage with the systems and dynamics presented to you, and you begin to see that the difficulty setting in ER (and other Souls games) exists on a conceptual level.
The exception that proves the rule here is Sekiro, which was an amazingly interesting experiment in putting you into a character's shoes through game mechanics - the only way to beat the game is to adopt the bold and precise combat style of the main character. The difficulty of that game comes from hesitation, fear, and carelessness - and it is painfully unforgiving.
Paragraphs are your friends
The megagraph is not "difficult" to read per se...
Nodding acquaintance at best really
To follow on to this, the "best" build may not be the best for you and how you play. Try out various things to see what feels right to you. Sword and board, magic, gish, dual wield, big two hander, bigger two hander, etc. All of them are viable to beat the game, so find the one you like the most/is easiest for you.
It's honestly one of the easiest From games, once you engage with the particulars.
I see this being said from time to time and I thought it was just me not "Gitting Gud", so after being filtered by Captain Niall even with my mimic summon, I went through and cleared Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 and 3, Bloodborne, and Sekiro all for the first time, and they were a fucking breeze compared to Elden Ring. I used a strength scaled zweihander in the Demon/Souls games to have the closest comparison possible (and also because I think it looks good). I guess it depends on which weapons you enjoy using, but the fact that there's such a big skill discrepancy between entire weapon categories is in itself a pretty big stain on Elden Ring's claim to be an RPG.
edit: I shouldn't say they were all a breeze. Bloodborne and Sekiro were difficult for sure. Not even close to comparable to my experience with Elden Ring though.
I guess it depends on which weapons you enjoy using, but the fact that there's such a big skill discrepancy between entire weapon categories is in itself a pretty big stain on Elden Ring's claim to be an RPG.
They're fundamentally different play styles. Difficult to you doesn't mean that that's what's most difficult for someone else. You engage from different spacing, move differently, and pace your attacks differently. When most of the difficulty from combat is about learning what gaps you can exploit and how to protect yourself against different enemies with different attack patterns, that difficulty is going to vary heavily based on what your previous experiences are and how you intuitively understand the concepts. It's what "git gud" actually means. FromSoft games force you to learn the mechanics of the combat, and calling strength based sword "harder" than a magic build is mostly about what style clicks better with you personally.
Gameplay wise, FromSoft games are as pure ARPG as it gets. Stats matter a lot and the combination of stats and gear fundamentally changes the optimal approach to encounters. Most RPGs have higher and lower barrier to entry classes, and most RPGs have variation in skill floor and skill ceiling of different types. The biggest difference is that most RPGs with comparable depth don't have anywhere near the level of fidelity mechanically.
That's pretty interesting. I fully agree that builds differ a lot in terms of how much they depend on player skill in these games, and I can see how that's not necessarily a good thing - but it is rather to my point that it's part of the "difficulty settings" that I'm arguing are intrinsic to the game mechanics. You're meant to choose your own difficulty setting in this way, and I think it was a deliberate choice to make it so, and not a failure to balance everything to equality.
I still haven't beaten BB or Sekiro, but DS 1+3 were pretty doable. I admit I haven't gotten through all of ER yet, though from my experiences so far I feel that's mainly due to work and parenting being such a drag on my mental energy.
I used to power through these games in a very slow, mistake-prone fashion. I've never been what you'd call "gud" at these games, which is pretty much my point - but it's only a matter of troubleshooting the difficulty on my own terms (if I ever have free time and no burnout at the same time again, wish me luck on that).
Never change, Miyazaki.
After 100%ing the game, seeing some of y'all complaining is something else. Reeks of not even trying to learn.
Getting oneshot by most enemies is not "difficult" it's lazy. Just upping damage on enemies is lazy. Take out the healing system if you want difficult. Dont just maximize damage.
Not trying to learn is such a weak excuse because you completed the game. I did so too and I think the game is less enjoyable because there is literally no room for mistakes. As unforgiving From software games are, this is just lazy design in my opinion.
Plenty games have you die with one hit https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneHitPointWonder
Many of those games don't have difficulty sliders either. At least with Elden Ring there are ways to make your character sturdier if you wanted to. Fingerprint shield or greatshields in general are a great start. Stat dump in health. Wear heavy armor. Grind out as many levels as you need to. It works the same as any other game. It's not like there's a permanent game over where you have to start over. Dying and growing have been the point of these games and most games since like the beginning of gaming.
I'm 75% through and have had very few issues with the game man. But yeah, bosses take time to learn and figure out. Takes me about a dozen tries per boss then I'm smoking them.
Learn the patterns, equip the right buffs, and it's really not that hard.
Not being able to grab a wooden club and beat god to death with it isn't the game being difficult, but you listen to some folks and you might get the idea its what they expect.
Use summons, get your magic going (or hell, full sorcerer) and you won't see any major filters. Might need to do fights a couple times but thats hardly a big deal.
The problem is that the controls for anything other than the fighting are rather clunky. It's not something specific to ER, but rather gamepad based games, for some reason. I've the same issue with Horizon Zero Dawn. In both games I play pretty much with the weapons, the healing and that's about it because fuck all that shit about cycling through options in the middle of a fight.
You sound like everyone who has ever seen me menu spells in a KH speedrun. You sound like someone who turns weapons off in ULTRAKILL. Neither of these are explicitly bad things, but the system in place (a scrollable selection menu in real-time) can be utilized at the same level of efficiency as a spell wheel; you just need to exercise your memory when you set up and when you use your belt items.
There's a lot of titles that allow you to pause and utilize your menu. Dragon's Dogma 2, for instance, allows you to pause at 0 HP and still use healing items, so long as you haven't finished your dying animation or been knocked flat.
Dark Souls and similar games make a deliberate choice in keeping the game in real time when you menu, and there's a lot of truly functional items you can keep on your belt to help those weapons: status items can help you finish applying a status when an enemy leaps back, the physick, stamina regeneration, many extremely powerful effects that they want a small execution and collection barrier on. Alone in the Dark (5) had a real-time menu like this too far before it was popular, and people complained bitterly about it, so I get where the complaint comes from.
Without dramatically reducing your available options or developing a completely different system of menus, the controls can't really be less "clunky". If horizon's wheel and DaS's menu aren't for you, you may just not like how action RPGs control. If it's about needing time for the menu, these specific titles may not really be up your alley. There's a TON of games that operate the way you're expecting, and at this point the community and developer alike are committed to sustaining this experience that provides friction. Friction is basically how you talk, from a design standpoint, about the difficulty of the game and why it's present and what it does functionally.
If you don't understand how friction and fun are related, the game was unironically not made for you, and misunderstanding that or not being eloquent enough to explain that has led to the "git gud" divide. The menus are meant to provide friction. The combat animations and the period you must wait before acting again provide friction. Being a relatively heavy RPG, you can overcome friction multiple ways, either through developed personal skill or overleveling or picking tools that the boss isn't equipped to handle or statuses it's weak to.
TL;DR of course the menus are clunky dude they're based on a decades-long tradition of interfaces that provide gameplay fun. The fun is there for a grand majority of people, if you're not having fun with the ball-crusher, nobody is making you use it.
for me, the "difficulty" lies in wind-up, cooldown and range of weapons. everyone also gets a "stagger"/balance gauge which adds more depth to your arsenal.
the way you use that against the npcs uptime with the current terrain is a typical souls experience.
I used to have a friend who was born with his left hand disabled and could only really play videogames on easy unless they had heavy accessibility options. Whenever i see these weird "dark souls needs to be hard" people i cant help but think about him and how he's barred from playing these deep, visually impressive games because the community starts sending death threats at the mere mention of an easy mode.
Accessibility like controller input options is not the same as "you have more health and can dodge more".
I agree with you that some people are misguided and expect dark souls to be hard for the sake of being hard. Yes you die a lot but that is part of the game, and dying is not a state of failure but a step in getting better in order to overcome the obstacle.
I have seen people not only beat the game but do a no hit run with guitar hero guitar, dance dance gamepad and even raw potatoes. Making the game easy does not equal to making it 'accessible', but it does break the core gameplay loop. There are ways to make games more accessible in general that doesn't ruin the fun factor. Check out AbleGamers they are doing amazing work helping the community which I think is one of the best ways to go about this issue.
Lots of very roundabout 'the game isn't difficult, you just need to get good at it' replies in this thread, trying hard not to say the quiet part out loud...
It wouldn't break shit, the fan base would have a meltdown over their precious thing being more accessible though.
Difficulty is not an accessibility issue.
lmao Elden Ring is already a dumbed down, more accessible version of Dark Souls.
Doesn't Elden Ring have quite a few easy mode mods?
yes. many. there's also mods that make it harder too, if that floats your boat
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Having played through its entirety last week for my review, though, I can confidently say that it's not unfair, as every foe possesses learnable movesets with consistent, readable telegraphing (the base game actually had a few problems with this).
While Shadow of the Erdtree is home to some of FromSoftware's toughest ever boss fights, finally taking them down after hours of patient perseverance led to some of the highest highs I've ever felt playing a game.
I couldn't help but loudly cheer despite the fact it was 1:30 in the morning (sorry, neighbors) when I finally beat Rellana, Twin Moon Knight — the first or second boss you're likely to encounter — in a (self-imposed) duel with no summons.
Shadow of the Erdtree takes what the base game did and does it better, cutting away most of its formulaic side content like simple mines and catacombs and giving its players a denser world with more bespoke and original things to find.
Neither pillar of Elden Ring's gameplay would give me the satisfaction they do if the experience was designed to be easier or to hold my hand, so I'm in full agreement with Miyazaki's comments.
In fact, that's a big part of why the Land of Shadow is so enjoyable to explore — new weapons, armors, spells, talismans, Spirit Ashes, and more are scattered all throughout the DLC's various zones, with particularly special items often located within or at the end of side dungeons.
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I really wanted to like ER. It's fucking beautiful and seems to have a lot of depth, but the a appeal to difficulty doesn't really hold any water, cuz the only thing that makes it difficult is unnecessarily clunky controls.
Maybe there's a mod or something now that makes the combat more fluid... I should give it another visit.
One could accuse Elden Ring of many things, but clunky controls is definitively not one of them.
It's probably one of the best combat systems I've ever played. When you die, you know it's your fault (usually because of greed), not the system cheating you. It's very fair, unlike many others.
I mean, bosses input reading my heavy attack to suddenly turn their three move combo into a four move combo 50% of the time feels a bit lame. For instance the dancing lion suddenly going into the spray carousel after it would have exhausted its combo and rested otherwise. My main issue is on the inconsistency.
Don't get me wrong, that fight was really fun and I overcame it, but there are many such cases where it feels overtly like the game just threw in the extra attack as a "fuck you" while trying to learn the mechanics. There might be a subtle cue to the boss's body language I didn't see but there's also the issue of the camera in encounters with large enemies.
On the whole though, as frustrating as it may be at times, often there's still an underlying pattern. The only fights I think are explicitly unfair are the ones with adds or multiple enemies that add a lot of uncertainty especially if some are off camera. The twin gargoyle fight comes to mind, as does the Godskin duo where you explicitly have to kill both around the same time or the other respawns.
What are you even talking about? In what way are the controls clunky?
soulslike mechanics probably feel clunky to people that don't really play soulslike. That said a bunch of things totally are clunky like cycling through spells and items which hasn't significantly changed since dark souls, and for people that would rather take their time browsing the items walking while the menu is up is probably pretty jarring. Probably other things. It really has come a long way from demon souls but I honesly kinda prefer the jankiness of the older games.
It's been a while, but I recall most attacks having an obnoxiously long animation, and that animation being set in stone once you trigger it. There is no aborting a sword-swing midway through to dodge or block. And if you make the mistake of pressing the attack button twice, apparently there's a built-in ability queue that can't be disabled, so you have to wait for the first animation to completely play through, then wait again for a second animation to play from start to finish.
It makes it extremely unresponsive. That unresponsiveness seems to be what most folks are talking about when they're applauding the game's "difficulty"... but you could make any game that flavor of difficult by obstructing the controls.
Get the fuck out of here. Absolute troll post.
Post your steam account stats, I dare you.
Which stats? I put over 100 hours into ER if that's what you're looking for. Like I said, I really wanted to like it, and 'got gud' (learned to time the control's clunkiness) enough to progress a decent way through the game. But it never actually got fun, nor did it live up to the wildly positive feedback it was getting from the gaming community. ER is an okay game. 5/10. It's not bad by any stretch, but it's not the posterchild of a perfect game that it was/is lauded as.
Elden ring isn't hard. People just need to learn to adapt and try new builds. This game is too massive to play with one build unless you go for something OP. That's why they give you so many tears to reclass. Learn weaknesses and resistances, use ranged attacks, use summons, use everything you have at your disposal. That's the whole point of the game.
If anyone needs any advice I can help make the game easy from start to finish. Just let me know.
Stop complaining about difficulty, pussies. Git gud.
LetMeSoloHer did it in his diaper and for free, noobs! 🤩🔥🤌🏾
I had the honor of summoning him twice. It was truly a sight to behold.
Cringe
Indeed. Everyone here has clearly lost their sense of humour.
And that's why I will never buy it. If you're too asshole to put in difficulty scaling, I have no use for your game.