Chat Apps, Government Ties, and Transparency – Threema
Chat Apps, Government Ties, and Transparency – Threema
Over the past days, two popular chat services have accused each other of having undisclosed government ties. According to Signal president Meredith Whittaker, Telegram is not only “notoriously insecure” but also “routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” Telegram founder Pavel Durov,...
I still stand with Signal App.
- Telegram has no default E2EE.
- Threema's encryption was compromised .
- Threema & Telegram both are for profit companies.
- Signal is non-profit & all their source code + finances are public. Even their server codes are publically available
Even their server codes are publicly available
Last I checked, their provided server code lags behind their production server, so you rarely get to see the current version. However, that's kinda the point of E2EE, is you don't have to trust the server.
And one can always self-host or use a different server.
I gladly donate it month to Signal. Love my freedom of speech
I can't believe people are saying Telegram and Threema might be better than Signal. Signal isn't perfect but Telegram and Threema are worse.
Because we keep saying Signal, Telegram, Threema instead of Anti-Libre Software, Service as a Software Substitute and Centralised.
It really depends on your use case. Most of my simple chat messages are the same as I would have in any public space. I have no need for encryption, I have need for convenience in that regard. With Telegram I have my chat history on all devices and don't need to use my phone to connect which are two must-haves for me. For my use case, Signal is the worse option. That doesn't make Signal bad, just not suitable for me.
As a privacy-concious person I am very much aware of the non-secure nature of my chats, but since that is not a factor of consideration to me when it comes to casual chats with a few friends and family members. The worst thing Telegram could do is analyse my chats and ... then what?
Signal is not applicable when you need a public space for people to just have a discussion, like in discord. Signal clients are clunky and rely on cross sync from what I see, while telegram clients are well made and convenient to use. Even Whatsapp went away from electron so I'd choose it over signal any day.
Except WhatsApp/Discord is anti-libre software and Telegram is libre but SaaSS.
Man, everyone is hopping on the Trash Signal Bandwagon, even though TG is less secure, and nobody (the 99%) uses Threema.
Don't forget Threem encryption was broken. Threema is not free
It's called disinformation and psychological warfare. How else attack E2EE, libre software?
I'm wondering if something interesting will fall off the truck this time :D
Context: before that blogpost, cellebrite claimed they can "hack" signal (or they were kinda closer to the truth, and that was media talking abt hacks without reading stuff)
Somebody posted it and made it a worthwhile discussion about Signal. GrapheneOS lied about it in same way on YouTube comment section last year.
Let's be honest, Signal is not perfect either:
- It requires your phone number
- It has had some suspicious funding sources
(UPD: It was funded by CIA)
(UPD2: Here I will quote www.securemessagingapps.com:
This matters because “money talks”, as the saying goes. If the company or person behind the money is likely to have reason not to protect customers’ privacy, it’s important to know. This could be indicative of the company not doing as they say (Google, Whatsapp, for example) or changing their mind once they’ve onboarded enough customers from whom they can make money.
- It has incidents (at least once) when backend code hasn't been updated for almost a half year or so
((UPD)Source: https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/04/06/it-looks-like-signal-isnt-as-open-source-as-you-thought-it-was-anymore/#update-2021-04-06-1-39pm-pdt-by-ryne-hager)
(I'm gonna find sources for the last two statements a bit later to not be unsubstantiated)
Done.Although, we all can agree, that Signal is still better than Telegram, or WhatsApp, or Threema, or whatever.
Still, we probably want to look at the better alternatives, like Simplex or Session.Session is also sus because you effectively cannot host a node, last I have seen. They claim it is "against a Sybil attack" but all it does is making sure only people wih large disposable funds can have nodes, and the effect might be the exact opposite.
Simplex is more interesting in this regard because while I am concerned with initial centralization (the default servers), they made hosting your own easy. But I personally stick with imperfect yet trusty XMPP.
SimpleX is great. BUT it's not user friendly. Thus general adoption for the average user will be hard. Don't get me wrong using the app itself is easy but as soon as someone switches their phone that doesn't have technical knowledge they will loose their chats because they won't understand the concept of moving their DB. Since you don't have an identifier like a phone number with SimpleX those people could even lose contacts as a whole since they generate a new DB, hurting their social connections.
That's the reason I personally never recommend SimpleX to anyone who doesn't have the technical knowledge to understand stuff like that.
It has had some suspicious funding sources
Wait until you find out where computers, the Internet, GPS, weather satellites and Tor came from.
Telegram requires a phone number too? I mean yeah there's the option to use that blockchain phone number service, but you can do the same for Signal. 🤷
Yes, it does. And yes, it is equally bad in both cases.
- It requires your phone number
Not anymore, right? Or does it still need your number for signing up?
Just to sign up
Signal no longer requires a phone number. You can now create an account. Not sure if that helps your outlook on it, but yeah. It was a fairly recent update that this was rolled out.
Edit: being told we still do need numbers to register. I haven't gotten a new phone since well before the change was made, so I haven't actually created an account and gone through the process. It looks like I misinterpreted what was going on when I read the changelog.
That's not true. A phone number is still required to register, you can just set it not to be public.
Source: I just tried to register and it asked for my phone number.
Last I have seen, it still requires a number to register - it just doesn't have to be public.
What gets me the most is the requirement of a smartphone to register. No way I am trusting my non-public chats to a phone, so that means either Waydroid/VM (which creates issues with copypasting) or signal-cli (which is fairly inconvenient).
- Discord/WhatsApp
- Anti-Libre Software (fails to include AGPL license file: bans us from removing malicious source code) 🚩🚩🚩
- Telegram/Threema
- Libre Software ✅
- Service as a Software Substitute (app needs service and we are missing server software for it: broken app) 🚩🚩
- Signal
- Libre Software ✅
- Self-Hosting (still needs service from us) ☑️
- Centralised 🚩
Needs phone numberCentralised
Suspicious fundingWhich lines of its libre software source code are malicious?- Discord/WhatsApp
Signal is currently the best middleground between security, simplicity and widespread adoption.
how has no one discussed matrix here
Unable to decrypt message
Unable to decrypt message
Unable to decrypt message
Unable to decrypt message
Unable to decrypt message
Unable to decrypt message
...
That must mean it's working! :D
I don't get it at all. There are plenty of platforms like matrix, xmpp, simplex that don't require phone numbers tied to your identity. Signal has somehow managed to convince people that it's a private platform, despite it being a US hosted service that requires phone numbers.
try quite dot org, might be suggested as an decent alternative
both suck when it comes to real hardcore privacy! Signal is surely a bit more private/secure/whatever, unless maybe you count in the US jurisdiction.
if you want hardcore privacy and security, use SimpleX. it's cutting edge.
Also Tox, Briar, Session etc.
- SimpleX
- Libre Software ✅
- Self-Hosting (still needs service from us) ☑️
- Decentralised ✅
- SimpleX
Nicely written article and a good read! However I had not heard of Threema before. It looks like a promising messaging app itself, anyone use it?
It's relatively popular in DACH countries.
I use it sometimes. It has its fair share of issues, and the back end is not open-source, but it is OK for the most part. Main benefit is that you don't need a mobile number to sign up.
But if you are looking for an alternative IM to use with friends and family, I would rather suggest XMPP, specifically Snikket.
Cool thanks!
I am using it to communicate with 3 people (our common ground as I don't have an iPhone and don't use Whatsapp).
A few years ago it felt a bit ruff and awkward to use, but many updates later it is as fluent as any chat app.
The security feels ok. Of course it would be a lot better, if they would open source their code.
I use Signal as my main daily messenger the two major problems in my opinion are:
- Centralized server (AWS)
- Requires a phone number to register