U.S. to Announce New Tariffs on Chinese Electric Vehicle

So basically American cars are 2x overpriced rn

- And lots and lots of government subsidies.
- You might want to look at some of the loosening child labor laws here in the US. Hyundai's plants have been caught several times using child labor.
  I'm not defending China's practices by any means because many are truly horrific but the US is pretty far from perfect in many states.
- Source ?
- Child labour? Care to back up that claim?
- Do provide a source that shows Chinese cars are made with child labour.
- What child labor? There are no kids in China, they have some of the lowest fertility in the world and the most intense school hours for the rest
  You're like 40 years out of date
Yes, and it's poor Americans who need a vehicle to buy groceries and get to work everyday who are getting shafted while the automakers rake in the profits. Not to mention the environmental costs of driving on fossil fuels.
- Maybe we should get our politicians to invest in, say, mass transit. Seems pretty obvious
- Allowing China to sell these vehicles here at well below cost is only going to shaft poor Americans even further. They're trying to do what Walmart does to small-town economies.
I’m not working in the conditions the Chinese have decided is ok. They can be poor and live in barracks at factories, I like free time and money.
- So youre saying American cars dont import any parts? They dont preassemble overseas? Everything is 100% made by american Union labor?

Big 3 copium as usual.

Eventually they'll do what Japense OEMs did and open factories in the USA.

I mean, that's precisely the ideal case and goal of many tariffs.
- Only I think they're already opening factories in Mexico. Which again isn't a terrible situation either.
Mexico

How about American companies just learn to compete? The same bullshit is why we can't get a fucking normal sized truck in this country.

How about American workers learn to work for the same wages and working conditions.
If you want companies to pay a living wage with strong unions and safe working conditions, then competition with other places that don't bother with those things becomes near impossible.
See: The factories that iPhone is built in
- No. We can still pay workers much better and make much more lower priced affordable models.
  Stop giving the CEOs, upper management, investors, etc., millions and millions of dollars. I don't care what anyone says.
  We can have the sub 10k priced EV, or even less, like China has. They can still make money on luxury/performance "status" models.
  This is all about keeping extreme wealth for the extreme wealthy. Wall Street, etc. Full stop.
  We can have very well payed workers and much cheaper yet still quality vehicles.
- Agreed. This is something that is very much overlooked when people talk about how manufacturing in China works. The country is split into special economic zones that have different rules and laws that govern the regions. This allows them to uniquely exploit their labor markets to keep their costs as low as possible.
  iPhones are built by FoxConn in their Shenzhen factories. See FoxConn Suicides for more.
- Are these tariffs based off how they treat their workers? Do countries with good working conditions not have tariffs?
- EV manufacture is mostly automated.. This argument makes no sense. 8 people to build an ICE. you only need one for an EV.
- China's neighbor's brains: CHINA BAD

They aren't sweeping Chinese cars under the road here as much as they are sweeping an actually affordable, practical EV option that could easily win the mass market and shift the status quo away from ICE engine vehicles at scale.

Bigger problem is, that while blocking the Chinese options, they won't give us a similar option at that same affordable cost.

Ah, the free* market at work

International companies are not entitled to a country's free market
- Sure ... The free market is only free as long as i always win
- How can you call it a "free market" if it's actually a "free market*"?
  ^*terms ^and ^conditions ^apply

Read as: The only way they can compete with Chinese vehicles is 100% tariff

Well yeah. The companies are state subsidized and a good bit of the tech is stolen from electric car companies in other countries that actually have to pay for R&D.
- So Musk doesn't get any tax incentives and write offs?
- that is the same myth that big pharma explains why Americans pay so much more for medicine.
  https://newrepublic.com/article/153864/innovation-drug-price-myth
  US automakers have expressed that they are fine economically making expensive cars for rich people. of course that is after 80 years of lobbying to under cut public transit and trains.
- True, but far less than American manufacturers.

i wouldnt hate this so much if america produced quality automobiles. but we dont. so watch people pay double for something that will last twice as long.

even at equal pricing, they just push out better quality than we can seem to muster

Cough Boeing Cough
- Considering how many Boeing aircraft are out there operating every day and how very little we hear about issues I am not sure this is an effective example.
Not as if Chinese EV were any good though...
- I've been reading reviews from EU and Australia. The initial quality has improved a lot.
Overpriced for sure, but there are great options out there. Been driving fords for years. Have a ranger now and an old 7.3 that is invincible.
We absolutely do make quality vehicles in the USA. Especially pickup trucks.
- Modern American cars suck
  Chevy has notoriously weak body panels. The 3.6 they're throwing in everything has issues with the cylinder deactivation system. The 4 bangers are made in Korea from Daewoo. They also have weird electrical issues, usually due to the 2 battery system. Certain ones shipped with features built in but not wired up and functional (heated seats). They have to retrofit newer models with features from older ones (heated wheel in the tahoes must be retrofitted from 21 or older models), no blind zone either on the tahoes which is strange for a new vehicle in it's class.
  Ford had engine fire recalls on most of their trucks and large SUVs. Transmission issues plagued Fords as well if you bought automatic like 90% of Americans. 1.0 EcoSport had a dogshit motor. The only two Ford products worth buying are a Mustang or a Ford Edge if you're a mainstream consumer. I consider the raptor and enthusiast truck
  Dodge/Chrysler has been consistent, but consistently mid. Transmission issues in all the trucks. Most of the SUVs like the compass and Cherokee run a fiat 4 cylinder. The 5.7 hemi gets only marginally better performance than the 3.6 pentastar. The 6.4 and 5.7 have lifter issues. The 3.6 had some minor misfire issues in the Pacificas. Some of the new jeep wranglers are a 2.0 turbo. It helps when you design the same vehicle since 2013.
  Post COVID cars worth buying
  Anything Toyota/Lexus if you want the best all around
  Anything Mazda that's naturally aspirated, or turbo if you care about your car maintenance.
  Anything Hyundai/Kia that has a Korean motor (1.6t) and you maintain your car. The American made motors for Hyundai are terrible.
  Altima and 4 cylinder rogue is fine. 6 cylinder maxima and Murano is fine. CVT isn't as bad as it used to be. I don't trust the 3 cylinder turbo.
  Subaru is mid, the fa24 is good. The FB25 is mid and have issues after 100k if maintenance isn't done and PCV isn't maintained. The CVT is okay. The wrx 6 speed is mid. The STI is discountinued but had the best transmission. If you like expensive projects, go with any performance Subaru, and spend 3-4k on an STi drivetrain, it'll bolt up 9 times out of 10
  Honda 1.5t has head gasket issues. The 2.0 is great, but they're not really using it much. The civic SI is mid and gets outperformaned by a Jetta.
  Volkswagens are great if you maintain your car well. I have a controversial argument that the ea888 2.0t is the best all around 4 cylinder, even the k series.
  Luxury brands like Audi, bmw, Mercedes and the such aren't great for a mainstream consumer. Enthusiasts that do research will buy them anyway. For the average person, they're too expensive to maintain, and the luxury features people seek can be attained in a Signature trim Mazda for a fraction of the price.
  I'm autistic, I work around cars every day, and I really really like cars.
- What a claim to fame. The best absurdly large pedestrian killers for suburban parents to pick up groceries with.
- Electrics, then.

Great news after Tesla cancelled it's plans for an entry model. Green for me not for thee.

There are some other American brands that have decent EV options now. Hopefully that continues to grow
- GM who put out a faulty platform across several brands and gave data to insurers so premiums shot up? Or Ford who can't build an EV below 50k and are allergic to building something that's not the size of an armored military vehicle?

Blatantly anti-competitive practices. We don't have a free market in the US. Shit is expensive so the wealthy can continue to profit at record levels while citizens pay the price. Why try to compete when you can protect the wealthy and make your country suffer?

The CCP can artificially depress the value of their currency and subsidize their industries indefinitely. They are doing this on the backs of their workers, who should earn more for their labor. They are doing this because their own workers are too poor to provide sufficient domestic demand for their consumer goods, however, this strategy just makes their workers poorer, exacerbating the problem. Chinese exports should be used to make their economy self-sustaining, but they just perpetuate economic bubbles and malinvestment that cause economic stagnation. Neither domestic nor international commerce has never been free of interference or fair.
- and subsidize their industries indefinitely
  People keep saying this that are fully aware the US subsidizes its industries too. Yeah? They subsidize their electric vehicles? Fuckin good!
- That's true and all but this decision is solely about oil barons and their fat fucking profits.
  Its no coincidence that they are going after electric cars and solar panels. Chinese workers have had it rough for 30 years but green tech is where we draw the line and not literally everything else, who believes this?
  Its not to protect the economy, it's not to protect the Chinese workers.
  This is only about oil profits.
- It’s not the 80s any more. China has the largest middle class in the world, bigger than the population of most countries. 40% of the vehicles in service there are already electric. In the cities I visited it’s closer to 80%. Chinese shopping malls are filled with name brand western products and always busy. You’re either ignorant of the modern reality of China, or just a liar.
China doesn't have the worker protections that the US has, the same level of gov't support, nor the environmental rules that the US has. It's only anti-competitive if there is a level playing field.
- And the government just realized this now and are going to make it clear it isn't okay by fucking up any export out of China that has the word green in it.
  Nothing to do with oil money folks, just China got caught red handed and we just weren't looking before. Yes, you can still keep your iPhone but fuck your solar panels and any car that doesn't crave gasoline.
- China doesn’t have the worker protections that the US has
  Yeah weve got protections, like minimum off time for sleep...wait no. Maternity leave? Nah. Well our child workers get protected meal breaks at least. But not the adults. Water breaks or temperature limits? Still no. US doesnt have damn worker protections.
- China literally has 40 hour workweeks, triple overtime, mandated workers democracy, mandated sick leave, mandated vacation time… this isn’t the 80s man. In a lot of ways they’re ahead of my country as far as labor protections go. My wife works at IKEA and gets better sick leave time than I do at a multi billion dollar company in the west.
Because China would be wise to subsidize their auto industry to sell at a loss just long enough to kill the American & European auto industry forcing us to buy Chinese vehicles.
- this is the japanese scare all over again

Free market for thee, but not for mee.

I don't actually mind the US protecting their economy from a predatory one that is more powerful - but I'd like USians to remember this when their politicians argue for war against 3rd world countries that want to protect their economies from the US.

Jesus Christ he's actually trying to lose this election.

I remember when trump was called out on his dumb little trade war (and rightfully so), but now that biden took the same trade war and escalated it, somehow it's all good. Then these hypocrites wonder why people think both parties are the same.
- Ah yes.... Scotch tariffs really helped save our domestic Scotch market.
- Saying both parties are the same is an early sign of dementia.
- I would vote for a presidency that is for free trade. Allow these companies to mature in the market. Though in this case the technology in US cars is extremely behind. I mean were only just getting LFP in cars, and while 800v that allows for super fast charging is markedly common over there, it is in only a few models here. I'm not getting why we're putting these companies under tariff, legacy doesn't have an EV industry with the capacity to scale affordable EV. A lack of innovation is also something to mention. It really shouldn't be considered a good thing when a 10 year old EV like the Bolt is a best seller. I wish the US legacy auto EV industry would either build a very basic aerodynamic economy EV with no tech nonsense for under 25k with 250 miles minimum or just leave it to Tesla and Chinese OEM. I mean all of them have abandoned the sedan and economy car market.. Why not let the Chinese have that market share if they can't build something comparable just put tariffs on Chinese SUV and trucks which is a segment that legacy auto can't stop building.

Fucking cowards

Anti climate move

Still worth it.

Hopefully someone can tell me why this wont work, but what if they Chinese mfg did a Tesla and sold cars online and then shipped them over as "Sold" vehicles. I would do something like this out of spite, but if there are thousands of orders the cost of shipping can greatly be reduced over one or two "special orders" from China.

There are so many ways american regulatory committees could call foul on this that it just isn't worth it.
It just wouldn't be worth trouble and risk of delaying further the export of Chinese EVS.
New Chinese electric vehicles exceeding international safety standards are already less than half as expensive as new American electric vehicles anyway, so even with a 100% tariff on top and whatever other taxes and fees, they'll still be cheaper than new American EVS.
Probably hit the owner with duty anyways
You have to pay customs anyways. Uncle Sam will get their pound.