Socdems being cringe part 4: DSA chapters act like chauvinists during Cuba trip
Socdems being cringe part 4: DSA chapters act like chauvinists during Cuba trip
Honestly its rude to be invited by a country to meet their president who decided to respond to your criticisms of their administration only to not show up and go meet the opposition.
Being invided and then no showing shows complete disregard to basic diplomatic Etiquette since it was a mission to show solidarity against the embargo
Bonus socdems being cringe part 4.5: about another member that didnt show up to the presidential meeting
Deeply unserious people
These fucking idiots get the possibility of meeting with and creating an ally for their cause with state resources that has actively used those resources to secretly fund and support foreign causes in the past and they stupidly do this shit?
Absolute fucking idiots. I have no other words. The complete and total failure to see an opportunity presenting itself to these morons is beyond stupidity.
How to build bridges, apparently
- Go to foreign nation and berate it's leadership
- Skip meeting with it's president who actually was going to try and address aforementioned comments
This reminds me of a recent podcast on Rev Left where he interviewed three Pan-Africanists who were part of a delegation in Cuba: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/on-cuba-and-haiti-the-fight-for-liberation-self-determination-in-the-caribbean
One of them has been to these conferences in Cuba multiple times and would mention how US leftists would constantly bring ideological and sectarian baggage with them and how Cuban communists have to constantly tell them to remove their heads from their asses and stfu (It's around 13:00 into the podcast).
If anyone still wonders why the global south thinks the western "left" is a joke, this is a perfect example.
jesus christ, imagine being able to meet the top goat of cuba and SKIPPING OUT
fucking losers
not surprising. shameful, pathetic behavior, but not surprising in the least.
NATO leftist scum. Had the same experience when I visited a chapter as a leftist Guatemalan with actual success in my city and these fucks used obnoxious idpol to downplay our gains and whined about how we weren’t that strong while listening to European leftists who achieved less than us.
Read Maria’s response as she lists “poc voices” to use them against Cuba. This is what NATO leftists do and their irritatingly academic way of speaking combined with the sheer arrogance and chauvinism is why most in the global south hate them.
We went to Cuba as reps of our party and even warned them about NATO leftists. They laughed and said they’re well aware of them.
I skimmed some portion of Maria Franzblau Criticism of Cuba
https://reformandrevolution.org/2024/02/17/cuba-between-imperialism-and-socialism/
We should be critical of socialist and anti-imperialist forces when necessary. Most times this should take place internally when other parties take actions we disagree with strategically. But when a leftist party actively betrays socialist principles, such as by attacking abortion rights or supporting Israeli apartheid, we should be willing to make our disagreements public. As for reactionary, anti-communist forces like the governments of Iran and Russia or groups like Hamas and the Houthis, we should make crystal clear our fierce opposition to their politics while also condemning imperialist aggression against them.
Most egregious considering the Palestinian genocide.
The first weakness is in our analysis and understanding of Cuban socialism. There is no shortage of inspiration we can draw from positively appraising the Revolution’s gains in literacy, healthcare, education, and more. We should not deemphasize the role of the brutal US embargo in the country’s crises. But one simply cannot understand the full picture of Cuba this decade without also understanding the political repression of independent organizing, the threats that private business and austerity pose to the socialist economy, or the crisis of legitimacy the government faces. If one were to attend this delegation and fully accept the party line put forward in our itinerary, the political side of this crisis would go completely unmentioned.
Having it both ways, the embargo is bad for the economy but also the threats that private business and austerity pose to the socialist economy
Second, it limits the effectiveness of our external messaging and organizing, especially in regions of the country with large Hispanic and Cuban-American populations. While it is true that there are large sections of these diaspora communities, particularly Cuban exiles, who are hardcore reactionaries and have petty-bourgeois class interests, it would be a mistake to treat these communities as monolithic or immovable. In my own experience organizing in Miami, there is a large presence of Cubans in every local struggle, whether it be university students and faculty walking out against our far-right state legislature’s censorship of education, or local Starbucks workers’ struggling to unionize their stores.
DAH POCS. like fr what do you mean?
https://reformandrevolution.org/2024/02/17/cuba-between-imperialism-and-socialism/
My strategic reasoning is that I think it's counterproductive to advocating for an end to the embargo to meet with the head of a state that will credibly be accused of authoritarianism.
Holy shit. It's literally just "muh authoritarianism." And coming out of some of the more powerful caucuses too. This is the best the DSA can muster?
"Deeply unserious people," indeed.
In general this is something I notice among the western left. They call themselves communists, but actually hate and disagree with the social and economic policies that every single AES country led by a communist or socialist party has tried to implement or actually implemented. I notice it a bit on hexbear too. AES countries are actually attempting to build an equitable society, as a country is first and foremost a society. This means actually wielding political power and making controversial decisions. And even when the western left and an AES state agree on a policy, the western left will still find a way to say the very policy they agree with is actually bad all of a sudden. See the comments on Cuba's family code.
Also for those in the West who critise the economic systems of AES states, you will have to take the very same steps as these AES countries on the long road to socialism if you plan to seize state power.
Nevertheless, the establishment of a state capitalist regime is unavoidable, and will remain so everywhere. The developed capitalist countries themselves will not be able to enter a socialist path (which is not on the visible agenda today) without passing through this first stage. It is the preliminary phase in the potential commitment of any society to liberating itself from historical capitalism on the long route to socialism/communism. Socialization and reorganization of the economic system at all levels, from the firm (the elementary unit) to the nation and the world, require a lengthy struggle during an historical time period that cannot be foreshortened.
- Samir Amin, on China 2013
I mean, singling these losers out is cool, but it seems weird to call out all of DSA for the ugly behavior of these two bad actors. After all, this is a statement coming from within DSA. Its not coming from the Cubans themselves. The fucking President took time to meet with them, which would seem to suggest Cuban organizers are largely supportive of these outreach efforts.
Giving these two tickets was a mistake. But organizing the trip, getting Americans to visit the island, and putting them face-to-face with a bonafide AES state leader should be a huge mark in DSA's favor.
I don’t understand how anyone can take a person like this seriously.
Class struggle in the society inevitably has its reflection inside the Party, and it appears in a concentrated fashion in the form of the two-line struggle within the Party - this is also an objective law. The reason why there can be no doubt that class struggle in society has its reflection in the Party is that our Party does not live in a vacuum, but in a society in which classes exist, and it is possible for bourgeois ideology, the force of old habits and international revisionist trends of thought to affect and poison our Party organism.
Just saw the screenshot of the other member's tweets. Fuck these libs so much.
“Oh neat my strategic reasoning doesn’t conflict with my being a spineless loser!”
For context this article is written by a caucus in DSA called Red Star. They’re MLs and part of a Marxist majority on DSA’s leadership committee. One of the two cochairs of DSA is from this caucus. The members being criticized here are from R&R, a Trotskyist caucus with no representation in leadership, and SMC, a social democratic caucus that is part of a minority in leadership.
I think this context is important because it seems most people outside of DSA don’t understand how it works. It’s not the most well defined organization but thats has allowed it to accumulate a large number of members. As such, it’s become a site of struggle with many dedicated communists trying to educate and radicalize open minded members. It shouldn’t be written off.
Maria has been working non stop for as long as I've known her. She's one of the best comrades I've had the pleasure of working with. She is a machine that turns liberals into communists. She has tirelessly organized for trans rights in Florida of all places. She is an anti-imperialist through and through.
She has criticisms of Cuba's government, not the revolution. Read her article. https://reformandrevolution.org/2024/02/17/cuba-between-imperialism-and-socialism/
Did you know that as Marxists we are supposed to engage in critique instead of just parroting whatever view the online left, heavily infiltrated about 1000 ways, decides is correct? Do you think that actors of state are above criticism just because they call themselves socialist?
Maria is my friend and comrade. This is bullshit. She had done nothing but act in good faith and provided factual, well considered criticism and all she has gotten in return is vile lies, insults, fed jacketing and the worse treatment. Leaders of DSA's International Committee, who do not get along with R&R usually, have stepped forward to defend her and her criticisms.https://twitter.com/cearaos/status/1780785735055868107?s=46
This internal debate is already exhausting; to see this appear on the dunk tank, an internal DSA message board is ridiculous. You have no idea what you're posting about, clearly.
Edit: here's a recent article by MUG that criticizes some of her positions while fairly orienting it in the actual debate. Might be a lesson for young comrades who substitute the dunk tank for actual organizing or understanding an issue. https://cosmonautmag.com/2024/03/dsa-in-cuba-refining-our-international-strategy/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3iHS3zLWiURepmhi3xjQQa2Navm-Yni3sdwmblHF5Vig_sGlSCsM-wSrM_aem_ATJUeJnAi-ceSz1vIm1ecVqA3tMFP1ipJdK0lPPavGqimTyA3Zprk7EGqAVYUD657tEQxU8qucT9HMHYxnv5o3EU
That's right take the mask off you fucks! Death to America includes DSA.
Why the fuck would you even go if you don't actually car-- it's just political tourism
Who even does this? I’d kill to be able to take a trip to Cuba. I don’t even have any critiques but even if I did, I’d sure as hell keep those to myself and just be glad to be there.
Even going beyond socialism, if I was taking a vacation to Sweden or Argentina or something, the last thing I’m going to do is get into it with locals regarding their country. I just want to chill and enjoy a different country and culture, gd
it is time, Maria and Reneé
