A large state corporation in Brazil is currently trialing 800 Linux PCs. If successful, it will deploy and replace 22k Windows installs, comparable to the migration happening in Germany.
Back then I read an article about how M$ is crippling the ability of other office packets to read their docx and xslx formats who are supposed to be open formats, but in reality are written in a way never to be fully integrated by competing products. More information about their pseudo open standard: https://fsfe.org/activities/msooxml/msooxml.en.html
Munich in the past have used Linux PCs for quite some time until eventually switching back to windows. Back then they were citing the same incompatibilities to open and read and display M$ office files correctly. So Microsoft is definitely abusing their position as a market leader and trying to cripple competition as much as they can.
So fine them and require all governemtn documents and legal documents of anybkind to be in a true open format. Its only a compatibility problem if people continue to use their format.
In the past, some people have expressed dissatisfaction when I've sent them files in .odt format. However, it's the superior format in terms of support and functionality, so I always make them aware of that and of the fact that I will never use some shitty ms product....
Iso allowing itself to be coopted into fast tracking standarizing ooxml in 2008 continues to be horrible. Ms can point and say: see ooxml is a true open format.
That's unlikely to happen in every country where they're popular. Microsoft can just be like "oh you're gonna fine us? We'll pull out and you guys will be completely fucked. Have fun!"
They got into the enterprise sector so early that most offices wouldn't function without Microsoft products/support.
There was criticism at the time, but the people who had to work with it every day. welcomed it after a very short time. The end of the Limux project happened all by itself, because Munich's mayor is an MS fan boy and said so openly at the time. It was not because of technical problems or anything else. It was just a huge kindergarten child.
It didn't end
They actually flip flop a lot.
2006: Migration to LiMux begins
2008: 1200 out of 14,000 have migrated to the LiMux environment
2013: Over 15,000 LiMux PC-workstations (of about 18,000 workstations)
2016: Microsoft moves german HQ to Münich
2017: Dumping Linux https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/munich-city-government-to-dump-linux-desktop-84307.html
2020: Going back to Linux https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-not-windows-why-munich-is-shifting-back-from-microsoft-to-open-source-again/
2023: Microsoft opens new Experience Center in Münich https://www.munich-business.eu/meldungen/neues-microsoft-experience-center-emea.html
2023: Analysing what needs to be done to switch to Win10 before new vote https://www.tweaksforgeeks.com/ditching-linux-for-windows-after-wannacry-is-too-risky-for-munich-green-party-warns/
https://lemmy.world/comment/7251741
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think documents require a lot of new features.
If they abuse their monopoly it sounds like the DMA should be applied.
Offices have way more power to convert the world to Linux than even gaming does.
And ofc, Microsoft is well aware and is not interested in letting that happen.
And ofc, Microsoft is well aware and is not interested in letting that happen.
This is true, but there are only so many times that they can pull off what they did in Munich. If enough cities keep trying at this, there's no way they're going to be able to hold the floodgates back forever.
I'm usually a pessimist, but stories like this actually do get my hopes up
I mean.. They are not short on cash either.
Correct. Bavaria once tried the same thing, but then MS went to the local politicians, sucked their dicks a bit and boom, back to MS products it is! Hopefully the north doesn't fall for that kind of shit, and they likely won't because Bavaria is a backwards piece of shit of a Bundesland while Schleswig Holstein is kinda cool.
Hopefully this at least forces Microsoft to rethink riddling their bullshit with ads. I feel sorry for people who are still stuck with that trash for whatever reason.
I believe Lula and his government appreciates anything that reduces the influence of the US.
Incredibly based.
Damn alot of good things happening for Linux adoption recently huh
I keep seeing people say they will they move to Linux instead of Windows 11. I wonder what will happen to the market share.
Worse case we could see developers becoming harassed by people demanding features
History tells us that 85% of these people will move to Windows 11 despite what they say.
There is a real opportunity here for companies though.
The few that really need Excel desktop could probably run it in a VM or via a virtual desktop ( thin client ).
You could probably stop there. Honestly, I doubt it would even bother Microsoft that much. Office and Azure is the business now.
From there, you could try to advance further if you want.
Honestly though, for many companies, you could almost get Office 365 for free just be combining it with your Azure spend and getting a discount.
Companies that use Windows and Azure are locked into it by their use of things like AD, Intune, Exchange, OneCloud, SharePoint, Hello etc., on the infrastructure and ops administrative side, not necessarily by Office365. It's almost impossible to make a clean break from all that for any company past a certain size.
If its just one app it could just ran by something like kasm and remotely controlled by the end users.
History tells us that 85% of these people will move to Windows 11 despite what they say.
The interesting rub this time is the hardware. There's tons of still powerful and useful CPU's in use today that don't support Windows 11's TPM 2.0, so I wonder if that will push a few more people to Linux than when Windows 7 was EOL.
Office365 is awful. Use Gsuite if anything.
Brownie points if you use Nextcloud
Honestly they will prob release a slimmed down W11, call it W12 and people will migrate to that. I do plan on moving to Linux before EOL for W10.
What I predict will happen is that Microsoft will offer them Windows for free or bribe the relevant decision makers with free Surface Pro laptops (for "evaluation") or other Microsoft paraphernalia.
That's not how they do it, of only because it would tank Windows PR image as "free stuff".
What you do is arrange it with the government to alocate huge budget sums to purchasing Windows and other stuff from Microsoft at normal market value, then return half the money to the government officials under the desk in whatever form you care or can get away with, straight up bribes if you can swing it.
Microsoft gets to remain dominant, Windows appears to have been purchased at normal value and gets to keep its clout as fancy expensive stuff, and the decision makers get mad money out of it. Everybody wins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_licensing_corruption_scandal
I feel like free products just for decision makers sound like a straight bribe, and free Windows is still not even worth more then free and open source ...
Or they will just sell office 365 and other SaaS
Hurry up before the next right-wing government fires everyone involved and orders a total rollback.
Fuck yeah. Biggest employer in Europe NHS England needs to wake up and do this too. In one single licensing agreement they handed Microsoft £163.1 million. Imagine what that could do if spent on linux development instead, or heaven forbid on actual healthcare. It actually boggles my mind that the NHS doesn't have it's own distro and do its own development.
They don't need a new distro, unless they hire a lot of highly skilled packagers. I'd take say Ubuntu or OpenSuSE ... but it would be RedHat with Oracle for the NHS - they just can't help losing money.
For my tiny company, I'm going Kubuntu ... bear with ... Ubuntu means:
Those boxes ticked gets you on the way in the rather naff enterprise security word of tick boxes. Without those - give up now.
The K(DE) bit gets you a lot of configurability and its reasonably easy to get an environment out of the box that Windows users can get to grips with. Besides, I like KDE/Plasma.
I then tack on this rather fine project: https://cid-doc.github.io/ for AD, SYSVOL, "Drive letter" etc integration. Evolution with EWS does email.
My test machine is my desktop (it used to run Arch (actually), my laptop still does) - I started off with Kubuntu 22.04 and wired up all the above and then whilst in a Teams meeting kicked off the upgrade to 23.04 for a laugh. Sound stopped after a while because the kernel modules switched out. Anyway, all good after a reboot.
Seeing as I am competing with something that has GPO, I'll allow myself to use Ansible.
PS - I should point out that an Arch box can run one of the ESET for Linux products OK (I have). You can get it to do secure boot and it can do FDE. So can Gentoo but I spent 15 years constantly fixing my Gentoo pets too.
From what I've heard, the problem with IT in the health industry is with equipment manufacturers. MRIs, x-ray machines and other equipment that have control software that's written not just for windows, but a particular version of windows, and won't work without it. So you end up with a patchwork of different OSes that need to be updated and secure. Unifying that into one OS, even if it was to a pre-rolled Linux distro would be a nightmare, if not impossible.
It breaks my brain every day of the week thinking about how much money could be put to better use in so many industries if they just switched to Linux, but big organisations are like big ships; they move slowly and are hard to steer. And they regard software licences as the cost of doing business 🤷♂️
Yeah it's a shame about that. I wonder if a customer the size of the NHS could make it worth releasing Linux versions of the software though. I mean, if I can get an appimage or flatpak of some small open source cross-platform project surely someone like Canon could release one for their new ultrasound stuff. Especially if they're being offered an order to roll it out across an entire nations health service?
It would be pretty funny if they just ran it using Wine though!
bro you need to wake up. this is not how software works with government. NHS is not going to write their own Linux distro. that's crazy even for a company to do. its gonna take them a recurring budget every year just for maintaining the system. it'll balloon way past the Microsoft number easily. 163mm pound is a tiny TINY budget for an undertaking like building a healthcare OS that they plan to maintain forever. they'll have money to hire contractors once, then they'll pass it to their internal teams that are staffed with people trying to pass time until they collect pension.
also no way will any agency take the liability of building a custom OS for their health infra. health tech is honestly one of the hardest, most expensive things to dev just due to all the regulation and red tape behind it. you can't just build health tech for the hell of it, even if you're the NHS. it takes years and years and crazy money to have your systems certified to handle health data even if you're building internally.
When I was at university (also in Brazil) all the computers from my institute used Mandriva.
Interesting (and poorly paraphrased) story about a successful Linux migration:
I love Linux but I've seen so many of these efforts fail. I did a move where we moved an entire election system onto centos. the move was a quarter billion dollars for them, but a couple years later they came back needing us to move to Redhat... then back to windows eventually.
the reason is governments are never willing to figure things out for themselves. if there's any error at all that happens that might make some gov officials look bad, they need a support line to call immediately and threaten breaking contracts. maybe these guys are fuckin with Canonical but Linux support is so shit from my experience.
as much as I hate Microsoft, you can pay them enough and they'll elevate your tickets to engineers who actually can do something and fix your shit. THAT is what governments actually want. somebody to sue or blame when their tech hits the fan.
The reason they moved back is because Excel.
That makes so much sense. That's probably the best explanation I've ever heard of why windows is so hard to get rid of in large organisations.
Nothing like paying your consulting friends to move everything to Linux to then pay them again to move back to Windows later one. Just like someone is Germany did at some point. :)
The LiMux project in Germany had some shady stuff going on in the background. Microsoft almost certainly bribed the new conservative government to switch everything back to Windows. There was a great documentary about it from DW that interviewed some whistleblowers, but I can no longer find it. However, Quidsup on Youtube did a good video encapsulating the course of events.
EDIT: I was able to find the documentary by searching the old title in German, which brought up the original German version, and from there found the English translation!
Thank you. DW is such an amazing resource. I really like their podcasts and videos.
Those documentaries are great findings (and really really interesting). I would highly suggest posting them to the channel (or I would be happy to if you don't mind)
Hey- sorry to revive a very old conversation, but this evening I was updating my pihole server and noticed there weren't any changes/additions to Quidsup's notrack block list- so I started looking around and realized I hadn't seen a video from him in years either.
Do you know what became of him? I used to really enjoy his stuff and it's like he just left the internet.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
did a good video encapsulating the course of events
found the English translation!
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I actually want Microsoft to do better. Then can, they just ignore user feedback about user choice, design, what to work on etc. Good if they start to get some competition. I wonder what will happen when ARM gets common in a normal PC-build. Good opportunity to make some big changes.
Maybe a not so subtle way of telling trump to stay out
Are there updates?
He posted this update a few months ago, it seems to be progressing well!
nice
God I hope
Since the huge push to SaaS I've seen plenty of companies that essentially run thin clients.
The local workstations are just thier access to login to X website that host thier apps and data.
Zero reason for them to switch to win11 or buy new hardware due to "incompatibility".
These end users can be trained to use mint or Ubuntu and be just as productive at work.
Not even trained. Same browser, same login...
Funnily enough, this is what a chromebook was made to do. A computer that was only a browser. Unfortunately, the hardware was severely underpowered, and the custom software wasn't as flexible as a simple Linux desktop is capable of. (Almost no software support outside of Google)
When web apps took off a decade ago, I was secretly rooting for this.
OSes shouldnt matter anymore. Everything should funnel through a browser. WASM is already bringing traditional desktop apps to the web. Microsoft and Apple can die in a fire.
But with the migration, now the fight is to stop Google from owning browsers.
They also could use Chrome OS
I hope you can install Firefox, because The Googs is pushing for Manifest v3, which means no more functional adblock.
Linux or bust, babyyyyyy
But those only have a short life, they don't get many updates iirc.
Swapping Microsoft for Google is not much of an improvement imho
Go big or go home. No need to stick with anything from a large corporation if you're already pulling away from M$