Johnson & Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
Johnson & Johnson sues researchers who linked talc to cancer
Johnson & Johnson has sued four doctors who published studies citing links between talc-based personal care products and cancer, escalating an attack on scientific studies that the company alleges are inaccurate.
I'm sure this won't have any chilling effects amongst the researchers who keep us all safe.
Edit to add that Johnson & Johnson is/was also trying to use patent loopholes to make sure poor people die from tuberculosis; until the internet got mad.
The secondary patent particularly irked some advocates because the drug’s development was largely underwritten by public funds, according to a 2020 analysis. That study found public sector funds contributed $455 million to $747 million to getting bedaquiline to market, compared to $90 million to $240 million from J&J.
We pay for the development of the drug, they get the patent, then we pay for the drug. Socialize cost, privatize profits.
most of the hype about danger from talcum powder is quite fake. the link between cancer and the powder is hugely tenuous and the researchers are quite shameful. Poor J&J are being victimised when there are millions sufferring from the absence of their valuable and safe talcum powder,
So wait, J&J have already put aside 9 billion dollars for potential liability for the talc baby powder cancer claims and have stopped selling talc baby powder in North America, but yet they are suing researchers who made the issue known and constantly parroting that they aren't admitting any wrongdoing. Nice.
LTL said the researchers concealed the fact that some or all of the patients involved in their studies had been exposed to asbestos from other sources.
If that's true, it doesn't look good for the researchers.
But at the same time, J&J has to hold some responsibility for having their "asbestos-contaminated consumer talc products" on store shelves!
On the one hand sure, that's an issue. On the other hand, who hasn't been in contact with asbestos in one way or the other. Asbestos has been banned for many use cases but it is still widely in circulation. It's a bit like asking for people who have never been exposed to smoking.
And it should be pretty easy to get a group of people with same level of asbestos exposure who haven't used J&J's talc and compare the cancer % between the groups. That's where J&J should be focusing if they knew they were in the right.
But surprise, this is probably just throwing everything to discredit science.
It really depends on the type of study it was, and what these sources of asbestos were supposed to have been.
If they were doing a comparison study, so long as the control group was exposed to asbestos in similar amounts and in similar environments, it's still a strong finding. J&J shouting "they were exposed to other asbestos!" would just be an empty attack on the researchers' characters, and an attempt to falsely discredit them to an uncritical and uneducated public.
Things do seem to be a bit more complicated than that, though, as these are post-hoc investigations with no control. That said, it looks like they tried to do their due diligence to filter out participants who had known environmental exposure to asbestos. If some of them lied or mis-remembered, then it's up to J&J to show that the researchers were negligent or operating in bad faith.
That's going to be a pretty big hurdle to climb. I don't believe they actually intend to climb it.
The fact that the researchers asked about environmental during recruitment, plus the fact that J&J is only claiming that a small handful of people involved in the study were exposed to other sources of asbestos, really shows this for what it is: An attempt to scare researchers away from doing research, and especially from agreeing to be provide expert testimony in lawsuits.
One of the defendants here even has a new paper out this past January that includes patients with known environmental exposure to asbestos, and they show that cumulative exposure from all sources matters. Including exposure from talc:
Conclusion
For individuals with exposure to asbestos through cosmetic talc usage and additional alternate sources, all exposures contribute to the development of mesothelioma. Published case reports and case series have identified over 100 individuals whose sole exposure to asbestos was through cosmetic talcum powder usage.This finding basically cuts J&J's apparent argument off at the knees, and was published months before they ever filed suit. They'd have been aware of it at the time of filing. They don't seem to have anything here. Just the opportunity to try and make their detractors look as dirty as they are in the eyes of people who haven't read any of the research.
The wording is that “researchers concealed”, which is what they need to prove.
Keep in mind, it was that same research that cost them billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lawsuits, so anything to invalidate the original papers is going to benefit them.
This finding basically cuts J&J’s apparent argument off at the knees
It might be quite the opposite! The study itself concludes that "for individuals with mixed exposures to asbestos, all exposures should be considered".
If J&J is saying what I think they are saying, then the researchers made these products look more harmful than they were, and included people who would have been harmed by other exposure to asbestos but concealed that fact in the study.
Either way, J&J did a horrible thing by having asbestos-laden products in the market. I'm not on their side at all, but I also don't like bad science, so the outcome of this lawsuit will interest me regardless of who wins.
I’m betting one dude in the study renovates his house and he had asbestos containing outside walls or something and now J&J is making a show of it.
We shall see, but I wouldn’t be surprised this is more of an intimidation tactic than anything.
It's a pretty wild allegation. They would have to have known about the other sources of exposure and deliberately withheld that information. Even if the patients had had some other exposure, it's even less likely that the doctors would have known about it, and their study will have been designed as well as practicable to find out.
It’s a pretty wild allegation. They would have to have known about the other sources of exposure and deliberately withheld that information.
That's what makes it do damning. If J&J proves this, it would be a disaster for the researchers.
I'll be very interested in seeing how this plays out.
We desperately, above all other issues, need to resolve the fact that big companies can win in court simply by paying until the other guy can't afford to keep dealing with the legal system.
We desperately, above all other issues, need to resolve the fact that big companies can win in court simply by paying
In the Soviet Union, capital punishment was carried out by various methods, including firing squads, hanging, and later, the use of a single gunshot to the back of the head. These methods were employed for different periods throughout the Soviet Union's history, depending on the prevailing laws and policies.
What does that have to do with the conversation being had here?
Also, not that any of this is relevant to the actual topic at hand, but that's different from the United States... How?
Just this year Idaho approved the firing squad as a means of execution. It joined 4 other states.
We now use the lethal injection, but research is showing that it isn't painless, it just looks like it is. We used the electric chair for decades, and hanging before that.
I... what?
The complaint is here. Start on page 23 for the specifics. Basically, they're saying the patients in the study were actually plaintiffs in other litigation, and it came out in that litigation that many were known to have been exposed to asbestos fibers in homes, schools, or workplaces.
Holy crap that was a crazy read. LTL, the North Carolina shell company owned by J&J, tragically lost sales revenue and went bankrupt "because of their 2020 study". "To set the record straight" they are de-anonymizing the data to dox 5 of the participants and then going through those cancer patient's lives to say that they had contact with industrial asbestos at some point. Their main claim against the only patient they have positively identified, Lanzo because he tried to sue J&J, is that his middle school locker room and basement later had asbestos pipes removed. Their claim against #2 after matching her tumor stats is that her dad worked with pipes that had asbestos. The third, again matched by tumor measurements, had a husband who once told a UCLA doc on a visit that he was doing some demolition that might've had asbestos. The fourth, "matched" only by her age, smoked and sued Kent cigarettes which were proven to contain asbestos. The last is an age match to a cleaning lady who sued J&J previously and said in court she cleaned buildings and navy ships that "possibly had asbestos".
Their claim is that since at least one patient might've come into contact with asbestos from a source that wasn't baby powder the entire study is false. Basically, they dig through peoples lives and if they ever visited somewhere that has any asbestos on record or lived with someone who mentioned asbestos worries to a doctor they think you should be disqualified from being linked to Johnson and Johnson.
That's a SLAPP suit.
Does the place they sued them in even have SLAPP laws?
"Let's burn down the observatory so this never happens again!"
Ahh yes... amazing how they never short on money for these adventures
Money is only a problem when raising wages.
i’m sorry, they fucking what?
They're trying to bundle their bad pr while it seems like it can't get any worse. They're under fire from John and Hank Green and their fans for extending a patent in a way that is estimated to kill 6 million people.