Antiwork @lemmy.world AbsoluteChicagoDog @lemm.ee 6 mo. ago

Profit, by definition, is the money stolen from the value of our labor

Sad to see capitalist propaganda leaking in here. But remember the fundamentals my fellow workers.

69 comments

Profit, rent, and private property are all forms of theft.
- So no starting resources, no buildings, and no place to build a building if there were anyone with the means an intent. Brilliant, an even more disastrous utopia than the Libertarians. Well done.
  
  No you idiot, the resources are all held collectively instead of individually. You are so stuck in your individualist world view that you seem to be entirely incapable of understanding the premise of collective ownership.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of the "surplus value == theft" argument. At least not in every case.

The reason is that simply by being in the context of your employment, you can work more efficiently and produce more value than you could on your own. If your wage is between your 'potential solo value' and your 'current value', then the profit comes from the fact that you're working in the context that your employer has provided.

This isn't to say I'm against workers getting the full profit, but it's not as bad as some people say it is.
- That falls apart a bit when you consider that Capital, ie the tools and materials used to create Value by labor, is itself a combination of labor and natural resources. The context you speak of was not created by a Capitalist owning said tools, the act of arranging and managing labor is of course itself also labor, but that labor is not derived from Ownership, nor does said ownership provide labor nor value. It's separate.
- produce more value than you could on your own
  
  Sooo... more value that can be stolen by capitalists?
  
  the context that your ~~employer~~ fellow people doing all the actual work has provided.
  
  FTFY.
  
  Your argument against "“surplus value = theft” is about as shit as it gets.
  
  but it’s not as bad as some people say it is.
  
  The only reason you can pretend that certain aspects of capitalism is "not as bad as some people say it is" is because of the fact that organized labor have spilt a lot of their own blood fighting to get it to the point of being "not as bad as some people say it is."
- Your employer provides nothing that isn't earned by the value of the labor of its employees
  
  True, but what would the employees' labour be worth without the context of employment?
  
  As an example of what I mean, I have a hobby similar to what I do for work (hobby: game dev, work: software dev), I can say for a fact that I am more productive at work. I can specialize more at work, can get second opinions, and I get free, realistic testing.
  
  Still not saying wage labour is always good, just that there are cases where it's not that bad. There are other things we should pick to be mad at.
  
  False, they front the non-labor costs.
I'm all in on the labor theory of value. It's gonna be a long haul to displace all the people who believe value is created by magic in the market, though.
Permanently Deleted
What about keeping some revenue to reinvest in the business? For example, say I'm a business owner and I save some of my profits to open a second location someday. Does that count as stealing?
- Yes, because for you to get those profits, you had to not pay your workers the full value of their labor power.
  
  False. The full value of their labor plus the costs not tied directly to that labor is called Cost of Goods sold. The amount over that which the customer is charged is called Profit.
- Bourgeois trash
- Yes. Because you get to have a second location and your worker who created the value with which you opened it doesn't.
  
  Lol that's ridiculous. You wouldn't have enough jobs if nobody could expand their businesses.
Or it is the return for having fronted the expenses. One of those two.
- Its not. No capitalist invests in a venture where the most they expect is a return of their expenses.
  
  Oh, really? So you think the Utilities and rent wait until the clients show up and have paid do you?
What?

So if I work and make a profit, that money is stolen from the value of my labour?
- No, its just that you get to keep all of the profit.
  
  When you work for a capitalist they pay you a portion of the profit your labor generated to cover your labor cost (food, shelter etc.) and keep the rest for themself.
  
  It might be better understood in Marxist terms: you have the cost of your input materials and the cost of the labor-power needed to transform them. Subtract them from the output value of the labor and you get the surplus-value. The capitalist will keep the surplus-value the laborer created for themself and the laborer gets enough to cover the cost of maintaining their labor-power.
  
  I get what ypu are saying, but I have a different oppinion on the subject, and it appears that I have found my way to the wrong community, so I won't go into details here.
  
  I wish you all the best!
Not everyone who wants better rights for workers is a Marxist; the horror.
- Most people want better rights for Workers, yes, Marxism just provides a sound base for analyzing why Worker's rights aren't good in the first place. It's a helpful lense of analysis.
  
  You don't need to be a Marxist to want better rights for Workers, not at all, but Marxism definitely helps. That's why leftists are almost exclusively Marxists in some fashion, even Anarchists acknowledge Marxian analysis of Capitalism.
  
  It's crazy how much Marx u have in any people-related fields of study like sociology, economics n so on. Dude was hella smart!

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