2y ago

Did the "American dream" change over time, or was it just my interpretation of it?

So growing up, I had this idea that the American dream was about that if you put in an honest amount of work, you would be rewarded with a good life. This would mean you would be able to take care of yourself and your family, afford a car and a house. In my view, working one job would probably be enough.

Nowadays, I get the idea that the American dream has become about working your ass off in order to have a chance to become a millionaire. Somehow glorifying “the grind” appears to be a part of it too now.

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Here's the whole story in a nutshell.
WW2. Government imposes strict wage and price controls and pushes unions. Capital falls in line because they are makign money hand over fist.
Post WW2 the USA keeps a lot of FDR's New Deal policies in place and everyone is doing great. In 1960, minimum wage was $1.00/hour and the price of the average home was $11,000.00. Unions are strong and college is cheap.
LBJ decides that the low level fighting in Vietnam has gone on too long. He decides to go for a massive push to knock out the Commies. Turns into a quagmire and he realizes he's screwed. He didn't want to raise taxes, so he prints money instead. By 1968 people are starting to notice.
1968, Nixon becomes President. Says he wants peace, but increases the War spending using LBJ's print money plan. Inflation is now a thing.
1970s Oil Embargo really devastates the economy. Prices skyrocket and inflation is getting worse.
Reagan elected. Giant tax cuts for the wealthy and cuts for the poor. Homelessness is now a thing.
Before Reagan is elected, Middle Class is defined as one income supporting a family of four. $1 million is a vast fortune.
By the time Bush Sr. leaves office, 'middle class' is two incomes, and $1 million is what a rich guy pays for a party.
- Further, the prosperity of past generations was in the wake of WWII and destroyed economies around the world. The US was virtually untouched and had a boom-time that is unrealistic under any other circumstances. The US literally started on third base and our parents or grandparents thought they hit a triple.
  
  I didn't get into it in my nutshell, but Nixon's Vietnam policy had a bonus. Because we were making so many bombs, the US steel mills couldn't keep up with the demand from Japan and Germany. they ended up building their own plants, plants that were much more modern and used less energy. When the Oil Boycott hit, the cheap foreign cars were in high demand and Detroit was left scrambling. After the Vietnam War ended, the US had old, worn out infrastructure in the 'Rust Belt.'

Glorifying "the grind" is a toxic coping mechanism for dealing with the fact that our grandparents' generation got what they were promised and pulled up the ladder behind them, leaving the rest of us behind in debt and on fire. People glorify working themselves to death because they cannot bring themselves to accept things like it should not be this way and does not have to be, or you are just as much a victim of the 1% as whoever it is you've been taught to look down upon. It's taking advantage of the psychological need for self-assurance and a vague sense of superiority, but ultimately it's propaganda to keep the poor in line.
No matter how hard you "grind," if you are not self-employed you are always making orders of magnitude more money for someone else than you are for yourself. If you are self-employed, it's still true, but to a lesser degree.
- Well said.
  Took me a while to recognize the instilled behavior, and even longer to unwind the tendrils and it's effects on my life in general. Capitalism has instilled a martyr complex into us.
  I am a go where the wind blows kind of person and settled on working for myself. Much out of necessity as well, cause a company would absolutely not hire me anymore. I am still "poor", but I make my own schedule at least. If I'm gonna get fucked, I'd like to choose how.

The American dream is essentially trying to tell people that the United States is a meritocratic society. The more work you put in the more you get out. However, I’m sure most of us know this isn’t true. Where you were born and what family you were born into is the primary factor in determining someone’s success. So you grow up hearing stories of “hard working” billionaires and think “I can make it there if I work hard” while ignoring your family who worked their asses off and got nowhere. You see more of the lie of meritocracy as you age. People around you work hard and fail, you might succeed with less effort or fail with more. The idiotic decisions of today’s billionaires solidifies the notion that the American dream never existed and was fabricated to get people to work more for less in the hopes that one day they will make it. In reality, it all comes down to the zip code you were born in.
- Wealthy people don't allow their kids to fail. They bail them out with money.

I get the impression that it's always had enough different definitions that it's basically been a meaningless term.

The American dream has always been a fiction for huge segments of the population.
What we're talking about, technically, is the idea of meritocracy. If you work hard and smart, you should thrive. If you are dumb and lazy, you should flounder.
But that is not at all the case in the United States.
We have smart people working 2 or 3 jobs only to barely stay afloat, and we have morons sitting on mountains of money.
Briefly in our history we had a strong middle class. The Greatest Generation built it, wrestling wealth away from the top 1% with strong unions. Then they handed it over to the Boomers, who pissed it all away, and destroyed the power of organized labor.
Boomers inherited a nice system, but refused to fight to expand it. The 5-day work week, for example, was supposed to be just a stepping stone. The people who originally fought to get it would have never believed we hadn't gotten that number any lower 80 years later.
Boomers allowed the minimum wage to stagnate. They allowed pensions to go extinct. They voted time and again against universal healthcare. They did nothing to stop predatory lending. They did nothing to stop the explosion of tuition prices. They did nothing to make social security viable for future generations.
The stupidity, gullibility, self-entitlement, laziness, greed, hypocrisy, and frankly psychopathic governance of the Boomers has essentially wiped out all the progress that came before them.
They are retaining a death grip on their power, and have used it to give us a choice between a Trump cult, and Democratic party that is virtually indistinguishable from 1980s Republicans.
Oh, and when they found out that they were killing the planet, they just stepped on the gas and killed it faster.
So, yeah, the American Dream, if it ever really existed, is absolutely dead right now.
When the boomers are all gone, the voting power of millennials and gen z might have been able to fix things ... But honestly, we're riding the razor's edge with fascism right now, so it's a coin flip whether or not we'll even have a democracy with which to repair things.
- Sadly enough the answer right now is to keep voting for the Democratic Party candidates and wait for the Boomers to age out.
  If the Republican Party ever escapes its fascist fever dream or a new party takes their place, we should start looking at alternatives to voting Democrat.
  PS - my theory about the Boomers is that lead poisoning brain damage explains most of their bullshit.
  
  PS - my theory about the Boomers is that lead poisoning brain damage explains most of their bullshit.
  An episode of Last Podcast on the Left advanced a similar idea regarding serial killers.
  Sure, we know the new highway system enabled travel that enabled serial killers. Sure, we know the improved investigative techniques and technology make it harder to get away with serial murder. But I couldn't dismiss their take that serial killing was at its height in the 70s and 80s (and early 90s) and that leaded gas also fits nicely into that timeline.
  
  I think Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump both illustrated that radically changing the Overton window is best done from within the established parties.
  Bernie pulled the Democrats pretty far to the right of where they were, even in defeat.
  And Trump ... Well, I mean, he transformed his party into a cult.

"We don’t see any American dream; we’ve experienced only the American nightmare."
-Malcolm X, 1964
So no, it's not the American Dream that changed recently but your perception. The American Dream has been a fairy tale to keep the masses in line with some vague promise of success if they only work hard enough for a very long time if not forever.

It was stolen by the boomers, Reaganomics, citizens united and all the other policies that turned this country into corporate socialism.
- Absolutely.
  Boomers were born into a country that handed them everything. You could walk into a factory, tell the manager you were looking for a job, share a handshake, and walk out with a unionized position, where you would make good money with great job security for the next several decades.
  Then these clowns told themselves that they were rich and successful because of their own hard work. And they pulled the ladder up behind them.
  It never occurred to them that their parents worked harder for less, and in a million years they won't acknowledge that their kids have it harder, work smarter and longer hours for way less.

We’re in a second Gilded Age. Things will not change until the mega corps are broken apart again and taxes go up on the mega rich.
The Hollywood strikes are a good example — they’re fighting over residuals (scraps), but they should be fighting over a handful of companies owning the production studio + the programming + the streaming channel + the cable channel + the broadcast channel + the internet service + the set top box. It’s basically the pre-1940s studio system all over again. All of these outlets should be separate to introduce competition, and allow people to shop their work to multiple vendors.

The American dream has been slipping out of reach gradually since the 80s, but people just keep hoping real hard about it; poll done about a year ago shows that close to half of Americans think they'll be billionaires one day.
Edit: The poll more accurately says nearly half of Americans think it's possible they'll be billionaires. Which is, for all practical purposes, no less wrong.
- Nonsense. If you can save even $1 per day, after a mere 1 billion days you’ll be a billionaire! Anyone can achieve that if they put their mind to it!
  
  Which is more true by the year. Economic policy in the US and (to a slower extent) Europe has been shifting toward letting the rich horde wealth and away from new wealth being created, again since the 80s.
- That’s actually insane. I’d love to see it broken down by party affiliation as well.
- the dream is well and alive for those in the top 10%. They are the ones who are culturally dominate. All the writers in the media, etc. As well as the doctors, lawyers, business people, etc. They live in a exclusive bubble and they don't associate with the bottom 90%.
  They see the rest of us as just lazy idiots who should have 'worked harder' like they did, by having parents that can afford to pay for your housing and education into adulthood.
  
  That explains all the writers for popular TV, movies, and book series who are living in quads eating ramen in the their 30s. The reason there's massive a doctors shortage is because people with money don't want to go into a low paying position, and people without money can't afford to make $30k year during their residency as their student loans go into repayment. The only way to become rich as a doctor now is to patent something, which is not why most people become doctors. Lawyers who make top sums all come from 16ish very expensive schools and are often legacies. And the gold rush of getting into tech companies and then falling into success is almost entirely over. If you're not born wealthy there are fewer opportunities every day to change that.

To live the American dream, move to Scandinavia.
- Sweden used to be fantastic but its not anymore. Too much crime and immigration issues. And incompetent / evil government, we have like 12% inflation.
  I think Norway is the best place now.
  
  Sure, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland are all great.
  Sweden still has a very low crime rate compared to the US. Not even comparable. Also have extensive social services available to everyone that Americans can only dream of.

capitalism happened.
Employers discovered they could pay you less if they kept dangling the Dream in front of you, and yet you'd work twice as hard. Profits ahoy!

These videos cover this question in depth.
Is The US Really A Meritocracy?
The Myth Of Upward Mobility

The american dream was for the boomers who were promised pensions and social securitybin an era where the dollar had some semblance of value. We will never ever have those things. Even the boomers who get 800$ in SS are eaten alive with rent and forced into starving or living out of their cars in today's economy.
The american dream is called that because, you have to be asleep to believe it. We are much more awake as a society to the systems reality. Most of us are wagies that only exist in the eyes of the govt and corpos to pay taxes and generate profit until we get too old then put to pasture. The average life expectancy is 75, most of the boomers who retired at 65 maybe had 10-15 'golden years' they couldn't enjoy cause they were too old
You don't need the american dream. You don't need to work your whole life to pay off a 500,000$ mortgage on some shitty suburbanite hellhole with a terrible hoa. You don't need to go the common path most people do. I feel pity for anyone who got tricked into being an indentured slave to the banks/economy because they were a thoughtless monkey in their 20s who signed the dotted line on 50k in debt for a worthless degree and another 300k debt on a house because "family/kids". The only way to really be happy is to gibe the finger to the normal path and do something alternative.
Work hard, learn to save/invest in actual assets, don't squirrel away your money in a bank account forever since inflation will eat away its value if you just have it sit there. Have an e-fund of 3k to 6k, buy a van and convert it into a semi-living/camping space. Develop hobbies with actual skills, start your own small concession business. Don't buy a house buy land and develop the skills to build one yourself while living in a canvas tent. Plainly put, most people are too stupid, lazy, and unwilling to go without modern convinence. It takes a surprisingly little amount of money to live a comfortable lifestyle if you are intelligent, creative, driven, adaptive, and open to new experiences even if the outcome may be uncertain.
- All that is true, but you forgot to add the part where the person living the life you propose is healthy, quite fit even. Not everyone, even fit young people, would do well living in a tent while they try to understand how to build a house. Let alone run a concessions stand from a van or something. That takes a massive physical toll and not even over the long run.
  
  @recursiveparadox Thanks for your thoughts! I somewhat disagree that you need to be a fit and physically active person to do most things I mentioned. Definitely not everyone can build a cabin but if you want to live out of van and pitch tent and boondocks its certainly possible for the old and out of shape.
  Here are the two things I point to. When doing my own research I came across these two particular yt channels that truly inspired me! cheaprvliving and Bushradical.
  Cheaprvliving's host Bob wells is a now 70 year old and sort of out of shape man who still manages to live the van lifestyle. Just a few weeks he reviewed putting up a canvas tent and hooking it with solar powered air conditioner. In the Midwestern desert summer.
  He also has constant interviews with many people usually on the older side who are again in no way healthy or fit and some partially disabled but still able to make the nomadic lifestyle work.
  Its quite sad but a lot of older people are forced into homelessness as their rent eats them alive with meager SS. Young people also sometimes appear but not as much as you would expect.
  As for the concession stand thing Maybe I'm not sure how physically able you need to be to tow and detach a small concession trailer. You make a good point there. Can always have an online store and ship depending on the thing selling maybe. Bob however did have a trailer attached to one of his rigs about five years ago and managed to get it around as a 65 yo man.
  Cheaprvliving channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAj7O3LCDbkIR54hAn6Zz7A
  Bushradical is a couple with years of experience building cabins that have made excellent videos on how to build the cheapest and easiest lodges possible. The way they show this particular build it seems possible. They truly present it in a way that I am convinced I could realistically do it with maybe a few novice beginner mistakes. As a single person.
  Bushradical easy cabin blackthereof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOOXmfkXpkM&t=1
  Everyone's lie circumstances and desires are so different so what may work for one person won't work for all others, but I think a lot of people have alternative options available to them that they either never think about or convince themselves they can't for X reasons. At the end of the day people are responsible for the life they choose to live and the resulting satisfaction they get living it or lackthereof
- So just rent your whole life and do what for food?
  
  No you live out of your car for a few months while you work and pay yourself the 800-2500$ in "rent' you become your own landlord and save that money towards a used van or boxtruck you want (stay away from RVs campers trailers and skoolies they are all money sinks maintenance wise) it wont ve comfy living out of a suv or prius but plenty people have done it, helps if your short. for cooking and heat you get a Coleman propane stove make sure to do research and install detectors. Showers either boil some water and do farmers bath or get a new pump sprayer spay paint it black and solar warm the water. You pee in a bottle and go water a tree. You have a sealable poop bucket. Get a shower tent if you need. You buy nonperishable foods or use a cooler with ice. Summers will be rough without air conditioning, no lie. Either tolerate the season with plenty of water and shade or invest in enough solar+power station or fuel gens to run air conditioning in a small canvas tent. Or go to a colder higher elevation, nice benefit of nomadic living is being able to go anywhere anytime. Live well below your means, become your own landlord, become a resident of a state like Nevada where they don't do property or income tax and get some nomadic living in. Explore the country and all its beauty before its all gone. If you work hard for part of the year and save really well and live cheap you can get by on a year or even a year and a half no work. Or you can put the nose to the grinder/get a skilled high pay position to save up 10-15k and buy a plot of land somewhere with natural resources like wood and water then plop a little cabin on it.

That's just Instagram. The american dream, which is to be a company man and work the same job til youre 65 and live in a house with a nice yard and 2 cars and all that is still around, it's just out of reach for most people whereas it wasn't a generation or two ago.
- I think the American dream implied that if you put in honest hard work you could be successful.
  I found that personally true for myself, transcending from low income to being a millionaire in my 30s. But I know that it has not worked out for some.
  Factors that complicated this are numerous. Some are obvious such as the globalizing economy, as well as the increased deviousness of the ultra wealthy in their ability to influence public policy.
  One factor I feel like we don't discuss enough is just the heightened potency and addictiveness that we are able to market and manufacture products. It's so targeted now that to me it seems that we are preying on the low income and draining them of their wealth by convincing them to spend money frivolously.
  
  The last sentence, I think youre right. Well, not "we" I'm not, but some people are.
  When politicians talk about stimulating the economy, stimulating spending, that's what they're talking about: incentivize everyone to blow their money and save nothing. Then when it's time to get elected they say things like "most people can't afford a $500 emergency without going into debt!"

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