The world's 280 million electric bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
The world's 280 million electric bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
This article is vastly understating the potential benefits of e-bikes. Like-for-like replacements for car trips are only the tip of the iceberg; the real benefit of e-bikes is that the more people that use them, the less car parking we need. That means we can put back all those buildings we destroyed when we razed our cities for the car.
Fuck more buildings....make parking lots into parks and green spaces
Why not both? More housing and more parks. Win win.
We need more lanes. Just one more lane and we'll be done with trafic, I swear!1!!one!1!1!
that's kind of assumed to happen if you packed people into tighter and tighter densities
Don't forget you can ride a mile or two to the train station and get around like that.
Even if you have a bike in town and one at home. Two bikes are cheaper than 1 car and more space efficient.
I did the math once for my own commute, on my e-bike and with my electric car, and found that while the electric car uses only 20% of the energy that an average gas-powered car would, the bike uses just 1%. My bike, on my route (both directions averaged together) got 2,200 mpge.
Miles per gallon energy? What's that abbreviation?
Just another example of how Americans will use anything but metric (we do use metric sometimes, I know, it’s just a meme). We could easily measure it in Wh/km, but then we would also have to change how we measure gasoline cars if we want people to make direct comparisons. But, since we sell gas by the gallon, we would also have to change how gas is sold. When the EPA first came up with mpge I thought it was stupid (we don’t buy electricity by the gallon!), but I’ve come around to the convenience of being able to easily compare the two types of fuel. The EPA assumes 1 gallon of gas to contain 33.7 kWh of energy.
Maybe we should get everyone to switch to Joules for measuring, buying, and selling gasoline and electricity?
The E is for Equivalent. It's how "fuel" efficiency is discussed when referring to non liquid fuel vehicles.
Yup. There’s a Wikipedia page listing all the modes of transportation and their efficiency. Electric bikes are just about the most energy efficient way to transport humans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport
This is a weird definition they're using, and it doesn't encompass the whole box. An electric vehicle might be more efficient on a distance per unit energy basis, but it's less efficient on a total energy basis because we lose some of the energy in the electrification.
My only problem with ebikes is there's no chance in hell I'm consistently driving on the road with cars.
With how convenient these are, I hope there's more push to add protected bike lanes in road heavy places to increase adoption.
Looks like your problem is not with ebikes, but your city's infrastructure.
It is, and we have some of the best in the country at that. It's just takes a long time to make a place meant for cars into meant for bikes
We aren't no Netherlands.
Whaaaaat? You mean electric last-mile micromobility cuts down on emissions in a significant way, just like people had been saying for years? Who would have thought?
When I was younger and more invincible around 2005, I bought one of these crappy Ebay engine kits for a bicycle. One thing I noticed is that it wasn't really any slower from home to work than a car, because I could go around traffic. An E-bike would have been great. A lot of them get around on 500 watt or 750 watt motors, which is considerably smaller than an electric car's motor.
I'd have one now, but it's hard to ride one when I have to carry a kid with me most places.
I have both am ev and an ebike, and a 7 mile commute.
Driving takes between 20 minutes and an hour and a half. Biking takes 45 minutes no matter what.
Car uses about 25x more energy though and parking is around $20/day.
I should add my son much prefers the bike.
I love my Bafang too but be careful of regulation depending on your country, an e-bike is 250W so of you put a more powerful motor you get in the moped category with different rules (helmet, back mirror, insurance...)
Goddamn I love my ebike. It’s still very much a bike, but it changes the equation. I can ride a nice big heavy comfortable cruising frame, pull my kid in a trailer bike, get up steep hills that would otherwise stop me, and go 4x as far before I’m tired. It is just a total game changer. I’ve rediscovered the joy of riding my bike like I haven’t known it since college. I’m older and creakier than ever but my bike enjoyment hasn’t diminished - it has increased.
Same! I live on the top of a big hill, so leaving my house on a bike was never the issue, but I always dreaded the ride home. Now I own an ebike and I regularly use it to go into town for groceries. In fact, I just added a second basket so I can buy three full bags of groceries in one trip. I find myself actually looking forward to errands now.
Also, it keeps you in shape!
Yes! And I’m pretty lazy about exercise so having the “help me” button there keeps me from avoiding the bike.
First and foremost, people can afford them.
Second, they are more fun and you get to avoid all the traffic.
Third, cheap to run, no need to pay insurance, taxes, parking.
Fourth, anyone can ride it even children, no drivers license needed.
And so on...
In Norway, insurance is mandatory. And you have to be over 13 (or something like this). But in general, I agree with you.
Oh really? Maybe not moving 2,5 tons of metal and battery isnt a good idea? Maybe bikes were always a better mode of transport? I have a feeling that this was pretty obvious.
The article talks about electric bikes, not normal ones. That's e-bikes, or rather what I suspect that they are peddling as a newsertainment article: e-scooters.
until it is raining and winter
A fully enclosed velomobile would probably do the job, but I don't think it's legal anywhere in Europe :(
Great. All technologies that bring down CO2 emissions are needed.
As long as people get rid of their dino juice cars, who cares.
Yeah, right. And make 15 tonns of co2 extra, that would not have been needed when filling up the "Dino juice" car with "techno juice" that has 0% CO2.
But, we've lost the battle anyway already, so who cares.
Oh I see, you thinking alterative fuels to keep legacy car going. Problem is, those are biofuels and use a lot of land to grow and end up even more expensive than dino juice.
EV running costs is way cheaper and their up front costs is coming down fast. They use slightly more CO2e to make, but way way less to run. Plus those of us lucky enough to have drives can just charge at home, which is great. There does need to better infrastructure for those without drives.
Watched a YouTube about electric vs gas scooters in Taiwan 🇹🇼. Apparently it's like 6 scooters for every 10 people, crazy!
But the uptake of electric scooters wasn't as much as they thought, but a lot of complaints were around "cost", "parking" and "weight"
Sounds like an electric bicycle would solve all those issues over an electric scooter 🛵
Especially for the poorer, high 2 wheel usage nations, like Vietnam or India.
Just have to pedal a bit! 😉
I think big cars and SUV should be banned.everyone should use a moped or a bike but 9-5s pretending to be rich will hate it.
SUVs have lower cargo capacity than more fuel efficient vans, and often even less than cars like old Foresters. They 100% serve no purpose, but people have been tricked in to believing this lie about cargo capacity.
Even trucks today have lower cargo capacity than vans, while also having worse fuel efficiency.
But lets for s second assume this lie is true. Why not require a commercial license for any vehicle built on a truck frame? Prove you need it and you could get an exception.
I have heard this for years now. This all fine. I also have an E-Bike. I really love using it. But I live in central Europe. Weather is really shitty here from October-March. I use my car then. And no, clothing for biking in bad weather is not an option for me. I really can't be bothered to change clothes on my job. I just won't do that.
And the issue is where? You can just fuel up your car with co2 neutral fuel (like many Europeans already do with HVO100 Diesel in Sweden, the Netherlands and many other countries) and do the rest with your ebike. You probably dropped your co2 footprint to less than 5 tonns. The fact that HVO100 Diesel right now is ~30 cents more expensive doesn't matter anymore. B33 gasoline is coming and 2025 it's expected to be ramped up to 100% sustainable.
And compared to a BEV that needs more than 10-15 tonns to be even produced, just driving an older or cheaper car longer still makes it less co2 overall.
shameless plug !wintercycling@lemmy.world
I really can't be bothered to change clothes on my job. I just won't do that
I mean... you do you, but that gear generally amounts to a jacket, pants that go OVER your pants and different shoes. You're just fucking lazy. Own it
Yup. I invested in rain pants and a jacket, all I need now are shoe coverings. Get to work, strip it all off in 30 secs and put it in a waterproof bag. It's just a matter of adjusting expectations and habits.
To me it's way less complicated than driving. I don't have to worry about gas, traffic, parking, maintenance, break downs, and the stress of driving in the rain trying not to kill anyone. I understand why people are hesitant, but I think a lot of people just need to suck it up and give it a shot.
Also, public transportation is just straight up better than both driving/cycling when done right.
You’re just fucking lazy.
Absolutely. Is there any context in which you can "I can't be bothered with..." interpret as anything else as lazy? But so what? I will not ride my bike in shitty weather. And most people will do the same thing.
Love to see this!
On a related note: Feel free to stop by !micromobility@lemmy.world
This reads like an advertisement. Not saying it is. But it does.
Edit: Oh, AAP (Australian Associated Press)! Then it's definitely an advertisement.
Ebikes need secure destination parking or they lose usefulness
i just dont understand how usa and europe still has this super high bike thievery
Great income disparity, and the bikes are worth thousands, so valuable targets.
these are feasible in cities that you wouldn't want to drive a car in anyways. probably not so good for commuting around Boise Idaho
Boise is a college down that is VERY bike friendly. Nearly 200miles of bike lanes and trails.
I've never actually been there I don't know anything about it
We sold our car and committed around Tacoma for about 6 months before we moved to the Netherlands. It was awful in a ton of ways, but for a lot of trips it was way better. The majority of trips are under a mile, so dropping the kids off at preschool and stuff was way better on a bike. It's actually quite a bit faster since kids love to get on the bike instead of the long fight against the car seat.
We also did a few shopping trips. You can't really do much more than 3 bags on a long tail bike with two kids in the back, but it worked well enough for shopping trips. People look at you like you're crazy in the US when you've got things strapped all over your bike, but here it's just completely normal. We probably would ride year round there if it wasn't for how dangerous cars are when it rains. I have no problem biking in the wind and the rain here because I know I'm not going to be randomly murdered by some idiot in a multiton metal box.
I'm not familiar with Boise, but I'd bet that an eBike would still be better for a lot of trips.
He he, yeah, riding strapped into the little kid's seat behind mom on a bike was exciting as hell when you were little...
Because Boise, ID is not interested in building the necessary infrastructure for ideological reasons.
Is this some universe where people forgot bikes exist? How are electric vehicles better than riding a bike?
They are much better for the shareholders.
For people with disabilities and chronic injuries, yes they are better and provides accessibility. Don’t forget that people with disabilities exist in this universe too.
Less effort? I don't know where environmentalists got the idea that the average guy is a cross fit three time gold medalist, most people want effortless traversal
Proponents have been fought tooth and nail since electric vehicles were invented, and it was the public who was gaslighted- not they. Why try to change the minds of those who know they are right, when you can just change the minds of people not to listen to them...
“You can fool some people all of the time, and all people some of the time, but you can not fool all people all of the time.”
No matter how you feel about them, when your mate shows you his new electric car you still greet him with a request for a pint of semi skimmed.
Seems like a no brainer! And especially useful in dense cities where you don't want to be stuck idling in a car.
Is this because of China? Big middle class all wanting cars but the cities were designed pre-car, so bikes make more sense and cost less?
Outside of the US, almost everywhere in the developed world, there is a big bike revolution happening. Paris, London, Montreal, etc. have massively expanded their bike networks.
China has surging electric car sales. Almost every city will have wide 4 lane thoroughfares. At least they do have separate bike lanes, but then have pedal and ebikes mixed, with pedestrians for fun!
Exactly why 'muricans won't get rid of their wankpanzers.
If you're not that wealthy you might be able to afford a car but not want to buy a car and an expensive e-bike. A car is useful for short distance trips in bad weather, longer trips that might not be the majority of your travelling, and transporting stuff that won't fit on a moped (or an e-bike unless you get a trailer... or bigger stuff than that.) In that case you're going to buy the one tool that covers your needs.
On the other hand, a car has far greater maintenance costs. The car has license, insurance, maintenance, gas, parking, etc., whereas an ebike is basically free in comparison. Electricity to power an ebike is pennies, and maintainance is a few basic tools and a new tire or inner tube on occasion.
With all the money saved, you can just rent a car for the handful of days the ebike genuinely is not sufficient.
Electricity to power an ebike is pennies
This isn't even an exaggeration imo - I loaned an ebike for a month and didn't notice any change in my electric bill at all, despite racking up around 100mi on it
Yeah, which is why it's the reasonably wealthy people who have cars and not bikes. But that includes almost everyone in developed countries.
E-bikes are kind of a red herring here anyway; there's little practical use-case for them that isn't already covered by unpowered bicycles unless you live somewhere very hilly. (Even in moderately hilly places you get used to hills quite quickly). It's not unreasonable to do a shopping run on a bike as long as the shop isn't far away... But if it is, an e-bike won't help you get there in a reasonable length of time.
What if you need to move? You better just buy a whole cargo truck in case you need it.
Unsurprisingly there is a cost-benefit analysis going on. How often do people use their cars to do something that would be difficult by e-bike? For many of them, quite often. How often would people get use out of a cargo truck that they can't use their car for? Almost never.
Sure, some people have cars unnecessarily. Many people could use and afford a bike but don't have/use one. But there's an obvious behaviour going on here which means that electric cars are important.
Not sure what electric cars has to do with this topic. But I guess someone wanted to start a fight between car people and non car people going by the extreme cross posting.
Oil, and coal, and steel, and lithium. Etc.
Ok but emergency vehicles, supply and delivery vehicles, care cars should not get fucked please. These are lifelines. You’re still benefiting in some way on oil and a vehicle even if you’re not the one driving it.
this and how the urbanists fuck up cities, you don't want to drive a car, for sure. be it electric. two time this week, train were delayed, adding a wopping 1h30 to my commute.
I more than ever for renewal and common transportation but damn, dear these semi-public companies suck!
How are urbanists fucking up cities? By definition they are the ones trying to make them better.
I see more concrete than ever, I see more only-one way than ever which extend your traffic time and if you miss your exit or street, you are screwed and goog to do a full consuming/polluting detour to reach your destination. I don't mind if commute were performant, not ugly or dystopian.
I don't see much place for grass/trees etc.
Near my house, they destroyed an old fabric to build fucking cheap soul less apartments. They are literally building new "blocks" on landfields while there's plenty of free apartment in the city. fucking real-estate mafia and mayor's corruption.
I am from old Europe and we used to have nice architecture and city organization.
Maybe they meant urban designers
TL;DR: Due to being smaller and lighter, electric bikes and mopeds require significantly less energy to move themselves around than an electric car. The article starts with a headline about "oil demand" but then spends much of the rest of its length harping on consumer monetary costs instead. I could have said that in a lot fewer words. Actually, I just did.
Also, in SE Asia and other places where the primary mode of transport is a small motorbike, as it happens these small motorbikes actually pollute a lot for their displacement due to having basic uncomplicated engines, often not running very well, and lousy or absent emissions controls. ICE vehicles are also at their worst fuel consumption/distance traveled ratio when they're idling or crawling around urban areas at low speed. Replacing these with electric versions just makes sense.
Full disclosure: I own a gas guzzling truck, a fuel efficient car, seven motorcycles, and an electric bicycle. I use different tools for different jobs, as appropriate. If you're looking for a magic bullet, you will probably need it in a few different calibers.
I need to kill an elephant. What should I drive?
Your ancestors hunted the mammoth on foot with a rock tied to a stick. Use that.
A Sherman?
That's a clever way to put it and I like it
Out of your seven motorcycles, which one is used for which purpose?
I'll bet you weren't expecting to get an actual answer to this, but I'm going to give you one. (Spoiler: None of them are a Harley.)
First, I do use all of my bikes for commuting (the electric bicycle often, too, when the fancy strikes me) and usually ride a different one each day. They all get better mileage than my car and certainly better than my truck.
KLR650: Long distance touring and adventure rides, motocamping, hauling comically large objects that should not be transported by motorcycle.
Bashan BSR-250/Enforcer: I ostensibly bought this for my nephew to ride on adventure trips with me, but I also use it for tooling around town, light duty shopping, etc.
Honda VT750C/Shadow A.C.E.: Two up riding and touring, also good for making lots of obnoxious noise. My wife likes the passenger seat and sissy bar. Goes faster than the Vanvan, even with two people on it for long trips.
Yamha FZ6R: Dicking around on twisty roads. Irritating Tesla/M3/AMG/Corvette owners.
Orion/Nicot RXB250L: Playing in the dirt, at the motocross track, off road, doing wheelies, and narrow technical trails I probably shouldn't try to manhandle the KLR down.
Honda CH50/Metropolitan: In town errands, shopping trips. It achieves ludicrous fuel economy and you can fit a lot of stuff under the seat. My wife rides this one more than I do.
Suzuki RV200/Vanvan: Bought for my wife to learn how to ride a "real" motorcycle, i.e. with a clutch and gears. She uses it for motocamping trips.
Over consumption is probably worse for the environment than petrol powered cars
This is an excellent phrase and I'm going to have to start using it
What do you think about the impact of owning so many vehicles?
Zlich. Because -- stay with me here -- I can only operate one of them at a time.
"BuT tHe PrOdUcTiOn ImPacT!!!!!"
I bought all but two of them used. That ship sailed before I even swung a leg over.
Silver buckshot is how I describe it