I agree, except I think Israel is the one to both start and end this.
I burnt down your house and killed your family, but because you shot me in the foot, I'll burn down your neighborhood and kill your entire extended family.

This excuse of "how is it genocide if there are still Palestinians alive? huh?" is such bullshit. Yes, let's wait for Israel to kill the very last Palestinian before we can bring out our memorials and cry over the genocide.

Ministries of Health in Gaza is Operated by Hamas, so it would not be outlandish to say these numbers are being inflated in order to push public opinion and international support

EDIT: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/24/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-ministry-trustworthy-reuters/

“Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

No, it’s not complicated at all actually.

It's becoming quite simple...

I think it’s naive to think you can eradicate Hamas. The Brits couldn’t eliminate the IRA in Northern Ireland, nor could the Soviets eliminate the mujahideen. The US and French failed with the Viet Kong. The US just gave up on the Taliban…

Obviously there are individual victims, but as a nation Israel is mostly responsible as those who have all the power.

No one is launching the nukes, because, well…first that's not how nuclear deterrence works, like, at all. And second, most of the people with nukes are in favor of and support Israel. You are so off base in your comprehension of global geopolitics.

If someone shoots your dog and then you go to their house and shoot their dog. Are you justified? Perhaps. But you are still shooting a dog. And that makes you a dog killer.

2 wrongs do not make a right. Never will.

Oh cut the crap

Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a terrorist state. Both are and have been fucking awful since their inception.

Netanyahu quoted from First Samuel 15:3, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’”

The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.

First of all, sarcasm bro

Second, the ADL specifically is notorious for including any anti-zionist action as an antisemitic incident, even when carried out by other Jews.

A worldwide charity that’s existed for 100 years, whose exclusive mission is trying to save children from war, is a very good example of propaganda

Absolutely, 100%. Human rights organisations are not unbiased news outlets - they have agendas and objectives. Their objectives are commendable ones, and the work they do is invaluable, but they still utilise propaganda as a means to an end. As good and important as this end is, their reports should be received with the same amount of caution and critical thinking as any report coming from anyone with an objective in this.

you say that one is too many but then you say “don’t fall for this guys, it’s not nearly that many

That's just a straw man. I never suggested that it's not that many. It can be 3,257 and it could be 0. I just pointed out the information manipulation.

Are you saying it’s ok to murder minors because they’re armed

It's never ok, but unfortunately this is war and war is shit. An ak47 in the hands of a 12 years old can kill just as well as one in the hands of a 20 years old.

Another point for you to consider is that traditionally, in the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, many regions of Africa and essentially wherever there were children-soldiers, the ones that indoctrinated them, trained them and placed firearms in their hands were the ones who were blamed for their deaths.

You seem to hold Israel as the only one accountable for it.

Bigger font doesn't make you more right.

You can choose whatever age you deem acceptable for the Qassam Brigades and do some math to get the “real” number of children victims

That's just the thing with manipulating numbers - we can't do the math. That's why it's so effective and why you need to apply critical reading to these kind of reports.

And if they were armed teens, should we kill them

Answer me this - say you have a group of people preparing to launch a rocket. That rocket is inaccurate but they aim it towards a city. There's a high chance that you'll be able to intercept it, but there's always a chance that it'll fall on a building and kill civilians.

You can target this group, drop a bomb on them and stop them from firing this rocket. Now you learn that 2 of them are 17 years old. Do you drop the bomb? Or do you let them fire the rocket?

The only thing that’s really propaganda here is your comment

How so?

A child conscripted to fight in a war is still a child

I agree, but I'll copy what I answered the other comment about this exactly: It’s never ok, but unfortunately this is war and war is shit. An ak47 in the hands of a 12 years old can kill just as well as one in the hands of a 20 years old.

in the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, many regions of Africa and essentially wherever there were children-soldiers, the ones that indoctrinated them, trained them and placed firearms in their hands were the ones who were blamed for their deaths.

You seem to hold Israel as the only one accountable for it.

Let's hope Hamas releases the hostages and the state with one of the strongest military in the world backed by the most powerful nation in the world stop bombing kids that they have crammed into a tiny strip of land, and start working only actually solving the root of problem. Hamas' greatest recruiter and radicaliser is Israel. The only side with the power to stop these atrocities from continuing for decades to come is Israel.

Sure thing, that doesn't justify bombing civilians

A couple of videos I watched on the subject seem to clearly point at Israel being the aggressor. The existence of Hamas was directly caused by persistent aggression from the Isreali government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1SpwwJEW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvSxSEZ4WM

He says, unironically, on an article about 3000 dead children. Gross.
How many children do you think the critics will accept as enough? Or does that number not matter because they aren't Israeli children?

Source? I was under the impression that Hamas was in charge of all Governance in the Gaza Strip

EDIT: Following the 2007 Hamas takeover of Gaza, a month-long doctors' strike ensued due to political disputes. The new Gaza government, with Basem Naim as Health Minister, replaced Fatah-affiliated hospital directors and staff with Hamas loyalists. Jomaa Alsaqqa, a 20-year surgeon at al-Shifa Hospital, lost his job due to his Fatah support and faced arrests and assaults since the Hamas takeover. In response, Naim stated "the hospital managers weren't fired for political reasons: they were fired because of managerial, financial, and moral corruption in the hospitals." per wikipedia article here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Health_Ministry)

While there are political independent and non political members of the Gaza Health Ministry it is still under the direction of Hamas itself.

This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. None of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel's War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

No? Do you know why people switch accounts lmao

I think I didn't get understood. I was sarcastic as the west and Israel love to romance stuff but don't give a shit here and tend to dehumanize palestinians by, among other things, not naming one of them.

Everybody knows about Emily... give the name of a Palestinian child, pls.

rationally, no collateral damage is acceptable. realistically, you just need saturation bombing to answer the question.

If the bombing was truly indiscriminate then you'd have a point. But a 3 week WW1 era artillery campaign would have fully leveled Gaza a few times over. In order to honestly believe that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza you must believe that their military, the IDF, is the single most incompetent fighting force to ever walk the planet.

If so then yes, attacking the powerful retards is Hamas' fault and you can attribute the problems that result to them.

Alternatively if you accept that they are discriminatory in where they bomb, balancing civilian casualties vs. the value of the military targets they'd take out; then that question sort of answers itself.

If this alternative, then yes comingling your government and military infrastructure together to use civilians as human shields (a by the book war crime) makes the predictable civilian casualties that result the fault of Hamas.

No. Terrorist Hamas knew there would be a retaliation for their barbaric murderous attack and should have had all civilians in an area separate from themselves in preparation.

Quotes from the article-

“Yet the Gaza-based Ministry of Health — an agency in the Hamas-controlled government continues to tally casualty numbers….

In previous wars, the ministry's counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel's tallies.

But an outlier is the ministry’s death toll from an explosion at al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza City last week.”

So while they have been trustworthy im the past, i still would prefer some third-party oversight after that hospital story. They threw their credibility and caught a bunch of news orgs with their pants down for trusting them.

I mean, that street goes 2 ways. Hamas could also release the hostages and surrender. That would also end the bombardment and let in people to take a tally.

Who should it come from?