4d ago

We want privacy but not that much

I was posting some comments on Reddit, in the "Privacy" subreddit, about better privacy options than Android or iOS—like GrapheneOS. I just received a message from the bot deleting my posts that mentioned GrapheneOS or other privacy-friendly operating systems. I accept this, since I'm not the owner of the subreddit. But with all due respect, what's the point of having a place to discuss privacy if comments recommending great privacy-focused OS alternatives get deleted? I don’t get it.

It seems like people in that community want privacy, but apparently not enough to have an open discussion about alternatives. Sure, some people might disagree—that's normal in any discussion! Should we stop talking about the NSA because some people support what they do? I doubt anyone would suggest that.

Am I missing something here? Maybe I just don’t understand the reasoning.

54 comments

"the GrapheneOS developers do not wish to use reddit as a platform to discuss their products"
No one is making them. But they can't prohibit others from doing so. Also the mods don't give a fuck. What an idiotic excuse.

I can't remember any time in the last 2 years before I deleted my reddit account where a post I made didn't get auto-moderated.

The only thing to post on reddit, is that Lemmy is better

Am I missing something here?
Yeah, it's reddit, expect nonsense.

Google is a Reddit partner now, so they probably don't want discussion of anything that removes them from the loop, thus privacy is very limited to "privacy from everyone but Google" or whatever corporate blob is currently funding Reddit. This is why Reddit is dead to me, basically it is now all about profit and communities can only exist if they contribute to that goal.

I kinda get why the GrapheneOS developers don't want their product discussed on reddit: Imagine you're searching for a problem with GrapheneOS and the only thing popping up is a Reddit thread. They don't want their users having to go there as the "only" option to get their problem fixed
- Yeah this is a based af reason for comment removal
  
  rogue has bad reading comprehension, the rule is not only about graphene, and that's not even what it even says about graphene
- What I've seen there within the post about Graphene OS moving away from Reddit, is not wanting to be on Reddit with their own community, as the rules of the platform means that they are getting a lot of removals, blocks and things like that, so they moved their own community, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't talk about graphene. That's a huge difference, as a lot of people get to know this software reading about them on blogs, posts and Reddit. We need to encourage healthy conversations, even if we don't agree with the topic, but removing everything... Damm
- Posts from Lemmy do come up with searching, at least on DDG, so the best thing people can do is stop adding reddit at the end of a parameter and start adding lemmy
  
  Unfortunately a lot of instances do not have "lemmy" in their name, which makes this web searching significantly more difficult
  
  Or start adding "-site:reddit.com". On the other hand, in some cases it kinda makes sense with SEO being basically "generate a wall of text on what should be one paragraph with 3.5 sentences".
- They don't like platforms where they can't censor dissent. Thats the reason they dont like Reddit.
  
  What are you sniffing? There's no more pro censorship platform then Reddit. Lemmy at least keeps a mod log.

Reddit moment

I got perma-banned and modmail-muted for talking about the rule, not the OS itself. The moderators are a bunch of absolute fucks and don't give a single shit either. I did not break the rule, but got perma-banned. Then got perma-banned from Reddit for "ban evasion" because I messaged the moderators about my wrongful subreddit ban. My appeal was denied. Fuck em.
- They're as crazy as Musk. My whole household got permabanned because we used the same device for our accounts, and one person was suspended for some reason. They then accused us all of ban evasion and permanently banned us all.
  
  its such shit honestly.

I mean it's reddit. Example: I used to get on there from time to time, I'm fairly involved in homelessness services. Almost every time someone gets on there asking for help with food and I send them a link to food kitchens, food banks and other actual social services they can use to get themselves back on their feet, it gets pulled with an explanation of something like "well, we were just hoping for general advice not anything practical" from whatever mod removes the comment. I have some opinions on that.
It's less to do with your comments, more to do with the platform and the specific mods

Doesn't the message you received basically say the graphene devs don't want it discussed in /r/privacy ?
If I were involved in a project with any sort of following I wouldn't want it discussed in a large, general, subreddit either. If it is, you either need to engage with people there to minimise any misinformation, or you just have to let people spread nonsense about your product.
That said, asking why /r/privacy exists when the devs of privacy-related projects don't want to participate is a good question. The answer is, the mods are fief lords who would rather preside over a sham than nothing at all.
Honestly, I can't think of any good reason to be a moderator of /r/privacy on reddit
- It is funny because the post doesn't mention that they don't want to be discussed through Reddit or that community, in particular.
  They said that they were moving away from Reddit with their own community because it was really difficult to keep it up with all the blocks, bans, and a lot of issues with the topics that they were discussing, and with users being blocked because they were using VPNs or the Tor network.
  So they don't say that they don't want to discuss things on Reddit, they just said that they were moving away for their own community.
  It is funny because freedom means that if you meet with your friends in a bar, and you want to discuss Donald Trump, as an example, does that mean that you shouldn't talk about Trump in a bar because Trump said that he doesn't want to be discussed in that table? (He didn't say so I believe, it's just a random idea)
  No, you can talk about Trump because we live in a freedom world where you can talk with your friends or with colleagues or whoever you want, about the things that you want as long as you don't hurt anyone or you don't talk shit about that thing. Isn't it?

Let's talk about privacy, just not any private operating systems because there's a sub for that, or laws that threaten privacy because there's a sub for that, or any corporations that try to take away people's privacy because there's a sub for that, or our opinions on the concept of privacy because there's a sub for that so... privacy is, uh, not having people see what you're doing kinda.

reddit = garbage , thats all this is

Glad I deleted my account last week.

Eh, I get the rule. On the surface, it seems stupid because the subject of rom options is pretty integral to privacy
However, discussion of roms tends to always devolve into what amounts to fanboyism at some point. You end up with a lot of "yeah, but" and "but they are/aren't" that covers the same ground every single time, and users have to wade through the bullshit to get to anything useful.
It's the same conversation every time, so you reach a point where it's better to just outright ban rom/os so that other issues aren't drowned by that.
It's damned if you don't damned if you do, there's no good choice, so you make the choice that's less hassle on average

I have heard of drama involving Graphene OS. I just know there is some drama involving GrapheneOS, I dont know who did what or care who said what, maby its related to that?

That's what happens when something grows too much, at some point moderation is impossible and rules start with one intention but turn into the absurd.
- Bro I was just trying to raise my testosterone
  
  But how else will my baja get blasted properly

Reddit purged their volunteer mod base for exactly this reason. Some company asks them to change moderation to accommodate them, reddit complies without having to deal with pesky, independent human mods who might argue against the censorship.

Downvoted. You didn't read the rules of the sub. Yes, you should be allowed to do it, morally speaking. But if you red their notice you'll realise exactly why you aren't allowed to do so. Anyway welcome to Lemmy
- You are right, I didn't read the rules. But, as you said, I should be able as it isn't an illegal topic mentioning privacy orientated os. Should I read every line of rule of each and everything I buy/use? Definitely. Do I? Nope, and I don't think anyone does as we usually tend to apply common sense. And again, you are right, but I think, as that's the point of my post, it is nonsense having that rule in a privacy forum. It is like not being able to mention chocolate in a bakery.
- A group having rule is fine, in fact it's needed for the group to sustain over time.
  Unfortunately if this group is hoarding a resources, here a very popular meeting point for people who (in theory) care about "privacy" then the rule itself does not have to be "fair" or "right".
  So sure, when joining a group one must aware of the rules of said group, but it does not in itself means the rules of that group are automatically correct. I'm not saying here the rule is fine (I do have a personal opinion about it) but rather that this kind of event if precisely canary in the coalmine showing the genuine nature of the group, not what its name claims to be.
  
  Your complaint is genuine and I assure you that the sentiment is shared amongst many people here. I do not like that sub for its excessively tight policies. You must also consider that Reddit has its eye on that sub since it might spread awareness to other Reddit users and harm Reddit's bottom line.
  Either way, I stick to Lemmy and Kbin. Reddit doesn't let me create accounts over TOR and I2P anymore, which means I'm not going to be able to participate anyway.

Just ignore Reddit. Pretend it doesn't even exist. It'll go the way of Digg soon enough.
- here's hoping

Is there a lot of drama between mobile OS developers? I'm not really in those circles, I had no idea.
- I do remember a Moderator from the subreddit saying exactly that. Apparently "a certain" ROM's community was very vocal about their preference and provoked heated debates to a point where it was too much effort to moderate manually.
  
  It wouldn't have been that much work to moderate before the API bullshit ripped community-built moderation tools away.
  This was by design. Make moderating more difficult. Claim moderators are failing. Replace with AI that Reddit can control. Replace mods who leave from frustration with hand-selected mods who follow the company line.

Recently there was a discussion about an r/privacy mod, carrotcypher. they have been mod on that sub since before the reddit exodus but they are making very strange decisions, to put it lightly. maybe this is their work too

To be honest, the explanation given in the screenshot makes sense. Whilst it's frustrating, if the mods have had past problems with arguments over OSes (and there are dedicated subs for them), I can somewhat understand the reason for the rule.
- But, wasn't it better to ban users that are creating that issue without being polite, rather than banning some healthy topics and discussions?
- how do you discuss privacy on android devices if you can't even do so much as mention the name of an android rom. this is truly insane.
  
  You do it elsewhere

Dafuq?

54 comments