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No Stupid Questions @lemmy.world
Tekkip20 @lemmy.world

How is anime and manga more popular than comics and western cartoons?

Not against the medium I consume it.

But it occurred to me that there seems to be a lot more exposure to anime and manga largely thanks to services like crunchyroll and manga reader services, this includes physical sales as well.

It's just that you'd think say, Superman would be more stupidly popular since everyone knows who he is than someone such as Lelouch from Code Geass.

Is it because comics just doesn't have the same spark with the younger generation? Or is it because there are a billion different issues of comics so it makes manga more streamlined?

I would like to know your thoughts as I am quite curious about this phenomenon, since even in the early 2000s I was into anime, and you could get your fix from non legit services via the Internet, but I'm sure as shit it didn't hit this mainstream until the mid 2010s and now the roaring 2020s.

82 comments

  • I personally think that anime and manga having a 'pipeline' helps them.

    • A publisher like Weekly Shonen Jump shotguns a load of new series into their comic and sees if any stick.
    • If a series is popular, then their individual volumes sell well, encouraging WSJ to continue publishing.
    • After a while, the popular series will most likely be given an anime (which nowadays tend to be very manga accurate), which tend to export better.
    • If the anime is popular, volume sales increase worldwide, and you have a massive hit.

    While this quite effectively creates new popular series, it leads to a massive manga graveyard.

    Western comics don't really have this kind of pipeline and I'm not aware of any WSJ-like publications for new Western projects.

  • I mean there are a lot of reasons, but the main one is that the anime industry has its shit a lot better than the Western equivalent and the night novel->manga->anime pipeline.

    First, you have sheer quantity and variety. Every season, meaning four times a year, more than 50 anime are released, in all genres and for all ages. Meanwhile almost all Western animation is either for kids or marvel. Compare the darkest or most brutal Western animated show you can find to stuff like Perfect Blue (huge trigger warning BTW) and Made in Abyss. I, personally, watched more than a thousand hours of anime, likely more than all Western animation not aimed at kids below 10 put together. It just doesn't begin to compare. Even popular titles like Adventure Time or Gumball are for kids; they're just high quality works that also appeal to adults (more on this later). I know series like Invincible exist, but seriously. Name me 10 of them. Anime is a huge industry of its own right, more comparable to Hollywood than Western animation, and I think we all know Hollywood isn't interested in making anything decent right now. That's part of why anime is so popular.

    Second, with anime there's usually a story that's being adapted. This means there's a lot less of the hit or miss aspect surrounding a new work, as a manga or novel needs to have a certain amount of quality before it even qualifies to be made into an anime. Also, the market cares more about its customers than in the West, so studios do their work more faithfully (otherwise they won't get new jobs). As someone making a new anime, you want to sell blue rays, you want people to buy the original work, you want them to buy merchandise, and for all these you need to create something good that will actually turn in a profit. Also, if they've got a good anime going they don't suddenly decide to kill it and spend the money on another yacht. I'm still salty we didn't get a proper season 3 for The Owl House, for example. Studios have more respect for the work they're doing, and an original story they have to follow or they won't be getting any more work. Nothing like the MBA infested mess that exists in the West.

    Third, anime and manga aren't tied to a certain age in Japanese culture. 60% of Japanese people watch anime at least once in a while, and a similar percentage reads manga. It's not something you graduate as soon as you enter middle school. Light Novels are also obviously not for kids, because what kind of kid reads for entertainment today? These media all lean towards teenagers and young adults, and generally don't make too many assumptions about the viewer. I mentioned Adventure Time up there; so even anime that's made for kids doesn't treat its viewer as an idiot, which makes it watchable as an adult. Now how watchable depends on your tastes, but even a straight shonen like My Hero Academia or Demon Slayer has reasonably realistic characters with personalities, as tropey as they may be. Even the most shonen of shonen anime passes the same standard that makes Adventure Time and Gumball watchable to an adult compared to something like Paw Patrol.

    So, yeah, it's not even a comparison at this point.

  • Like others here, I was drawn to anime and manga for the varied storylines that had arcs that mattered, and an ending, and then stopped. And wrote something totally new.

    Whereas comics would reboot the same story, and reboot it, and reboot it… Or they’d have a big arc that dramatically changed things… and two issues later suddenly its status quo all over again.

    All of this made it hard to really get invested in their characters or stories. Why even do a story if you’re going to erase it all in the next storyline? Why care if so-and-so died if they’ll just be back in next week’s issue?

    The other reason was strong female protagonists that weren’t all sexualized to the wazoo. In western comics it was all tight spandex and butt-boob shots and shots framed by women’s thighs… and most of the non-super women were just plot points to be stuffed in a fridge.

    Meanwhile there were piles of strong, well-rounded, independent women of all different ages in manga and anime. Even the sexy women were developed characters first and sexy second. With western comics it definitely felt the other way around.

    I grew up on Magic Knight Rayearth and Slayers and Iria and Cowboy Bebop. Watching those was like a breath of fresh air compared to Batman Reboot #242 or whatever.

    And I really liked the varied art styles. Western comics were pretty much all of a muchness, the same style or close to it. Manga, meanwhile, had everything from Clamp’s super-detailed art to Dragonball’s more simplistic style. It gave them a much more unique feel.

  • I think it's because comics keep refrying the same story over and over again. Boot, let it run, reboot, let it run, reboot ... You get the idea. They try to spice things up and change stuff - the equivalent of remixing a classic song ad infinitum, some iterations will be better than others and you will probably like some more than the original but it's the same song.

    Manga and anime have originality on the other hand. Even if some genres become cliche, each story remains a closed entity. Characters here don't end up elsewhere, and once a story is complete it doesn't get a reboot. This means the audience can relate more easily to a franchise, because there are not as many variants, and then move on to the next.

    There is also less influence in Manga from current affairs, society and history, whereas comics always meddle with those three just too much. Mangas released in the 80s remain relatable today, but a lot of comics don't for example, or feel like they've aged awkwardly.

    So it's easy for people to remain 'loyal' to an anime franchise, but difficult for the average comic.

  • I'd argue that the main reason you see more anime is the target audience.

    Western animation is usually aimed at young children. For as much as I may have loved Disney's Gummi Bears as a young child (decades later and I can still hear the theme song on my head), it's now pretty painful to watch. Some shows have aged pretty well and some newer shows aren't quite so bad. But, the target audience still seems to be younger children for much of it. There are exceptions, and several of those are pretty well known. For example, The Simpsons and Futurama are both popular animated shows, and both are not aimed at children.

    Anime, by contrast is often aimed at teenagers. This means that it's part of the audience's formative years. People form bonds with the shows and carry some of those bonds into adulthood. And while the writing often falls into cringe inducing melodrama, there's enough of it that is passable fun, usually simple hero stories. The shows can be like a comfy blanket that doesn't insult the audience's intelligence too much.

    I'd also note that anime's appeal goes back further than the 2000's. My own introduction was Robotech, back in the 80's. While it was a bastardized version of Macross, with some pretty awful writing (not that Macross's writing is going to win awards any time soon) and a couple other shows, it was certainly a step above what most western studios were putting on for Saturday Morning cartoons. And that created a lifelong soft spot for anime. Heck, my desktop background is currently a Veritech Fighter. I still love the idea of Robotech, even if I only watch it in my memory through very heavily rose tinted glasses. And I imagine I'm not alone. The show may be different, but I suspect a lot of folks graduated from Disney and Hanna-Barbera cartoons to some type of anime as they got older and that anime was stuck with them.

    • Saint Seiya was the "graduation" anime for me, back in 1995 or 96. He-Man, Ninja Turtles and Spider Man stood no chance against a consistent story and bloody fights to the death. The anime dragged on a fucking lot, but the fights were like nothing else

  • people have been trying to figure out why kids like the things they like for many decades, ever since they became their own demographic. the only reasonable conclusion i've heard is kids like what their friends like, and tend to move away from what their parents liked (superman). why do they latch on to some things and not others?- who tf knows

    best advice is to not waste time trying to figure it out

  • As plenty of people have gone into the production pipeline, I'm gonna comment on the history of anime and manga and how that affects the way they're produced, since I did a paper on it many years ago.

    Manga dates back at least to the era of woodblock printing, as a famous artist by the name of Hokusai released a collection of prints titled The Manga, but the manga we know today was actually originally inspired by serialized Sunday comic strips from American newspapers imported via South Korea. The comparison to modern Western comics is clear, but I think this connection to the Sunday comics is why production houses like Shonen Jump have their weekly releases which allows them to try out new artists and comics without as much risk as Western comic publishers would have starting a new series with a full comic debut. Manga books can be better thought of as anthologies of weekly comic strips like Calvin and Hobbes rather than superhero comics.

    Anime is very much inspired by Disney films, but both anime and manga target demographics of all kinds and every genre you can think of. I think this goes back to the woodblock prints of yore, which were an artform that had no particular demographic or subject matter, ranging from raunchy porn to advertising for theatre shows and anything in between. Add in the economic boom that Japan went through in the 80s just as anime was taking off - a time where money was so easy to come by in the industry that they were just greenlighting pretty much any project regardless of subject matter - and anime had no qualms about portraying adult themes like sex or body horror, as well as deeper musings like the common references to the atomic bombs and the deep cultural trauma that did to Japan.

    Also of note: America was actually one of the last places to be introduced to anime and manga, and it took a long time to take off here. The rest of the world was getting into anime during the 80s while Steven Spielberg is quoted as saying that a cartoon movie for adults would never take off in the US in reference to the theatrical release of Akira, the profits of which funded many of the most famous studios of the 2000s.

    In short, the cultural gulf between America and Japan divested the newspaper comic strip of its stereotype as a media for kids, which resulted in an artform that catered to all audiences and interests. And upon circling back to America decades later, this lack of the stereotype and willingness to show deeper stories found a niche that had been completely unattended to amongst the teens of the 2000s, who gobbled up media in a form that they had grown up with but treated with more respect than most kids' cartoons. Also, it probably helped that many kids' shows were created with the sole intent of selling more action figures.

  • I don't know. Instead I'll focus on my subjective experience with comics and manga, as a nobody from LatAm who likes fantasy.

    Manga is something that I grew up with. As adulthood came by, I didn't feel the need to ditch it - instead I found other manga series to enjoy. There's stuff for young kids and adults; spicy and tame; comedic and serious; romance and no romance. No matter who you are and the stuff that you like, I feel like you could find at least one enjoyable manga series to read.

    In the meantime, what I've found from comics elsewhere:

    • Local (at least in Brazil) - either tailored for kids (see: Monica's Gang) or newspaper 4-koma with social commentary (see: anything from Glauco). So only kids get actual stories? Based on Mafalda I feel like that's how the cookie crumbles in Latin America as a whole.
    • European - wider in age demographic than the local ones, and some do have fantasy (Even erotica. Druuna, I'm looking at you. And your butt.), but I feel like they lack dynamic. Even adventure ones like Tintin. Still enjoyable to read, but sometimes my cup of tea might be yerba or coffee, you know?
    • United-Statian - Mary Sue protag got superpowers from Z'bh'thy, and now is fighting the Evil for the sake of their country. Skip past 20 years and they're still in the same slop, never reaching the end, in a multiverse that makes my PC cabling look tidy in comparison.
    • manhua (China) - I actually found quite a few enjoyable series (like the Fairy Captivity, Yaoguai Mingdan, My Wife is the Demon Queen). Perhaps not surprisingly they're similar in spirit to Japanese manga. I could see myself reading more of that stuff. (I'll skip wuxia though.)
    • manhwa (S. Korea) - 90% of the stuff that I've seen boils down to either "adultery stories" (I'm not into that stuff) or what feels like ultra-shōnen: "level ZZ is not enough, MC needs to reach level ZZZ". That said I did find a few enjoyable series, like FFF-Trashero or Carnivorous Princess Yegrinna.

    Are they always like this? Probably not; I bet that people can find exceptions to every single bullet point that I've listed.

    Something must be also said about the synergy between light novels, manga, and anime: if you want you get to enjoy the same story thrice, in three different media, and the pleasure associated with each will be different. And if the story is good enough it won't tire you down. I simply don't feel the same in non-Japanese series, even the ones that adapt the same universe across different media (like X-Men).

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