Google now requires JavaScript

I hate how these kinds of messages never explain WHY. It's just "Do it. Do what we tell you." 💀
- BOW TO YOUR MASTERS, AND SUCK OUR DICK!!!!
  I remember 10 years ago looking at a calculator app in the android app store, and seeing the permissions. And thinking "WHY THE FUCK DOES A CALCULATOR NEED MY LOCATION, AND ACCESS TO MY PHONE CONTACTS???"
  Fuck THAT.
  
  What dick? pretty sure it's fallen off from all the STD's.
  
  I found out yesterday the Samsung system camera app will not function without "Nearby Devices" permissions. Utterly ridiculous.
  
  All those years, and I still have no explanation why some apps want my browsing history.
- For ads, tracking and spying of course.
- Probably because 99.999% of users already use JS and dedicating a web page to it is already more work than they needed to put into it
  
  I think it's just to avoid explaining why, and how they harvest your data. That said, I also hate how a lot of errors of the big corpo are just like "This site has an error" no error-code, no further feedback what to do etc.
  
  No no it's more interesting if it's for evil corporate reasons! Lmao
- Because they dont need to
- A lot of websites are react which doesn't function without JavaScript. It's a more powerful tool for web dev and can be a better experience for the user if used right.
  
  Great. If that was their reason, they could explain that. But they didn't and that's my beef.
  But since you seem to be tech savvy, you also already know why they don't explain which great features of react they want to use on this page. And we all already know it's not for the user's benefit. It's for money they receive from data mining every minute of our lives.
- Because if they typed out an honest reason why, you would avoid them like the plague.

Google is no longer a Search Engine. It is a commerce/purchase search. It's nothing more than ads and corporate results to purchase goods & services. Google Shopping has taken over Google.
- Back in the day it was the best at what it did, but there's less demand these days for that kind of old fashioned search.
  Its still better than the competition at finding the URL of a corporate or government entity. Its still helpful for searching other websites for particular content - for example, the wikis for some games have an obtuse layout and unhelpful search function, and google can be the best way to find a particular page in that wiki.
  Before ChatGPT existed, and before the enshitifaction of Reddit reached the critical level its at today, google searching site:reddit.com was pretty good at finding organic human conversations that provide actual answers to your questions.
  Today however, ChatGPT is better at providing useful answers to whatever questions you may have. And Bing is better at image search.
- I guess ublock origin is doing wonders then, for me it's still the same...

https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/

DuckDuckGo doesn't ;)
By the way, in my browser, the title of this post shows up as
Google now requires Javascript in c/mildlyinfuriating
which shocked me a little.
- Sundar Pichai is the admin for this community, didn't you know?
- i use startpage ;)

I know this may come off as a surprise: but I imagine that requiring JS in 2024 isn't a big deal to most people.
Now of course Lemmy skews more into that small crowd.
I don't blame any website for requiring JS for full functionality in 2024.
- Google is a text input and a list of links. It should work without JS.
  
  It's far more than that. Even on a basic search page. Ever expanded the 'Peaplo also ask' section, for example? It loads more results based on your scroll position or interaction.
  There's loads of little things like this, you may just not notice or care about it - which is another discussion.
- All of the people replying to this saying you shouldn't need JS are totally unaware how modern web development works.
  Yes, you could do many sites without JS, but the entire workforce for web development is trained with JS frameworks. To do otherwise would slow development time down significantly, not allow for certain functionality to exist (functionality you would 100% be unhappy was missing).
  Its not a question of possibility, its a question of feasibility.
  
  I’m a React dev. You can create server side websites, written in JS, that don’t require JS to be turned on in the browser. Granted, this just became a new official feature in React but has already been available with React frameworks like NextJS
  
  I wish JS would die and we get nice and simple websites back. I hate web dev so god damn much. The internet is pure enshittification
- For full functionality sure. For basic functionality no. Searching on Google is basic functionality I'd say.
  
  Not really. Showing ads and gobbling up data is Google Search's core functionality, and JS is indispensible for that.
- You should still be able to use something like Lynx to browse and search. There's no reason to block basic functionality except that you can and don't care.
- I agree that it's not a big deal, but there still should be an option in my opinion. It can be a lifesaver to be able to search on older devices.

I love that society is basically stratifying into groups based on tech knowledge - it all seems very Cyberpunk.
- As someone with technical knowledge sometimes I get locked out of things because I block ads or refuse Javascript. For instance, I had to turn off my pihole so I could sign into my Microsoft account to play Minecraft. Or the times I encounter a website that breaks on Firefox.
  
  The Microsoft Minecraft login thing is getting pretty insane.
  
  If you're getting locked out of those things, those things are not worth using
- The more technology pervades society the more pronounced this will get. The sheer helplessness of people when faced with problems that seem trivial to some is scary. Especially when you see people losing final theses or critical work related data because they never learned about backups.
  Add to that tech companies trying to hide the concept of a file system, and it seems like this is by design to sell more shit.
  
  Yeah, obscuring and abstracting away the atomic units of the system is a classic.
  On the other hand self-education has never been easier, and there are open source alternatives of pretty much everything.

You're still using Google search?
- Sometimes, yeah. My default is DDG, and I also use Kagi, but Google is still good at some stuff. Guess I'll take the hit and just stop using it completely though. Kagi has been good enough, and also lets me search the fediverse for finding that dank meme I saw last week. Google used to be able to do that, but can't shove as many ads in those queries I assume, so they dropped that ability.
  
  Use the bangs in DDG, eg !g asks DDG to search google
- I don't think I used Google in the last 5-6 years. It's duck duck go all the way.

Yep. I use Noscript and DDG Lite by default. Just putting into duckduckgo: !g
<your search goes here>
will search google without having to turn JS on...looks like Duckduckgo wins again, even when it comes to using google, lol.
- So like !g
  <squirrels holding nuts>
  and I'll get googled?
  
  Without the <>.
  !g squirrels holding nuts
  More info here.

Who still uses Google? DDG has been way better for a long while now. Join the duck side.
- searxng? Anyone?
  
  Hell yeah
- …and who also has JS off? That seems like a weird combination.
  
  I agree, but if you want js off while web browsing, you're already in that advanced tech circle and are a part of that demographic.
  
  Its gaining ground very quickly
- Uses Bing results.
  
  So that's why it's so good at finding porn.
  
  Configurable, though, to use many other engines and results.
  Lots of overlap, but there are a couple other indexes out there.
- Kagi is also good. Better imo really
  
  It really isn't
  Giving up your payment information is not great for privacy
  
  https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html
  
  Love how you’re getting downvoted for suggesting a great search engine which doesn’t require JavaScript. Stay classy, everyone.
- Brave search 🤙
  Edit: I forgot that Lemmy hates Brave and doesn't want anyone to use it. Be warned, there are some concerns people have about the organisation.
  
  It isn't half bad

- html
  
  <form method="GET" action="https://duckduckgo.com/"> <input name="q" type="text"/> <button type="submit">Go</button> </form>
  This is a fully functional search bar. This is all it needs to be. It doesn't need Javascript, only if you want suggestions.
  The last time I checked, Google still works if you simply pass your query in the URL using the q variable. Google has no need to enforce Javascript.

Just use SearXNG.

Use any of the following:
DuckDuckGo Lite.
Stract.
Alexandria.
Clew.
Peeker.
Mwmbl.
Search my site.
Marginalia.
Wiby.

I like the SearX search engine. It gives old-school, relevant search results, not google ranked ones.
https://search.inetol.net/
It's also spread out over many separate instances, so you can pick the one that best suits your search needs:
https://searx.space/
- Smells a bit Musky
  
  It's open source and can be self-hosted. I use something similar called Whoogle that I run in a local Docker container. Strips ads, javascript, tracking, and amp links

Use LibreX or a fork called LibreY, it's a JS-free proxy for Google search
There's a list of instances at https://librey.org/instances.php
Something similar exists for DuckDuckGo btw, it's called 4get
Or you can just use SearXNG, a meta search engine that aggregates results from multiple sources
- The comments I come to Lemmy for!
- Here's a list of public SearXNG instances.
  
  Sweet, just tried using the LibRedirect Firefox plugin to redirect search to these instances and it worked!

No offense intended, but why are you still using Google? Startpage has anonyomized results from Google. DuckDuckGo is good enough for most people as well. Brave search also exists if you don't mind supporting that shitty company.

- A lot of the web is powered by JS, but much less of it needs to be. Here's a couple of sites that are part of a trend to not unnecessarily introduce it:
  http://youmightnotneedjs.com/
  https://htmx.org/
  The negative implications for Google requiring JS is that they will use it to track everything possible about you that they can, even down to how you move your cursor, or how much battery you have left on your phone in order to jack up prices, or any other number of shitty things.
  
  Htmx does use javascript under the hood, but just makes it so the developer can use html markdown for more a more interactive environment that's driven sever side. So the initial page load should render, but UI elements might not work as intended.
  htmx is more a move back to REST as it was originally defined (aka not json backend).
  
  JS is like a disease where it does not need to be. I would honestly welcome an Internet alternative that was all web 1.0 (with up-to-date security updates and methods). There's good uses for it in interactive websites that provide cloud services, but most of it is fud and breaks the whole notion of HTTP GET URLs you can just share and cache.
- A large majority of modern web applications are built with Javascript… Both frontend and backend. You do still have a large majority of websites using plain HTML or PHP, with some features requiring JS to function (modals, realtime stats, data input, etc).
  You also have alternative languages like Java or C# (and more), but also may use bits of JS on the frontend to drive functionality.
  You can bet that the majority of websites you visit nowadays will use some form of JS, unless it’s a static webpage to display basic information.

lol. nope. not happening. that's not how to get me to even think about using your search again (having quit over a decade ago).
- What, you don't want to interact with a CIA asset?

I've been happy with Qwant lately, they have their own index so using them doesn't support the Google + Bing hegemony. They're also EU based and regulated by the gdpr.

There are so many alternatives

why are you using google in 2024 grandpa
- Any reccos over duckduckgo? Been quite pleased with it.
  
  I use ddg, despite the horrible name it's very useful for me. I've been thinking about kagi the paid search engine but haven't committed yet.

AFAIK Startpage gives you google results with your privacy intact and less ads.
- Didn't they get bought by an ad company?
  
  When they were purchased it was with the understanding that they would get no user data and that Startpage does not collect it, and it has the same CEO who started the company so I believe him.
- I think they switched to usually using bing results last year. Their support site mentions they use both backends. I'd guess which one you get depends on which API is cheaper for each country.
  
  It turns out it went multi-engine, probably to prevent getting cut off of Google's Results. It probably mixes results from multiple engines like the old multi engine search engines in the old days of the internet.
- W search engine fr

they def wanna maximize data collection with javascript
- got to finger print that butthole

These are also just fun:
Wilby
The Useless Web
Marginalia Search
I also use Mojeek when I want a (serious) different set of results that I'm not getting from those pulling from google, bing, etc. It's not the best but it's getting better over time.
- thanks a lot for mentioning us; you can send us in searches which could be better via the submit feedback button on results pages, if you'd like :D

I just disabled Javascript and Google still works fine. It might be only Google's mobile site that requires it.
- Could very well be a mobile thing. I was pretty annoyed recently when logging into gcal for work on my phone, it refused to let me sign in without giving them my cell phone number. When I switched to wifi, it stopped bugging me, so clearly they pay attention to that sort of signal.
- Where are you? The JavaScript block also seems to disable reader mode, so maybe they serve a different page in places with accessibility requirements
  
  California.

Can't tell if because of spyware or because the poor intern they hired to maintain the site for the next month only knows JS frontends lol

If you ever need a search engine without JavaScript or https, give http://frogfind.com/ a try. Works great on ancient browsers and operating systems.
- Thanks... But no HTTPS?
  
  Yes, it targets old operating systems. Old browsers don’t have the right certificates installed, nor do they support current encryption algorithms and protocols.

Oof ouch my Lynx.
Oh well, there's always DDG and friends.

Who uses the internet without JavaScript? Must have so many broken websites
- I run NoScript, which blocks all JavaScript. I manually allow websites as I need it. It blocks all kinds of annoying nonsense while I browse.
  
  👑
- I started disabling JavaScript by default with uBlock Origin a few months ago. I am surprised to report that a bunch of sites work fine without JavaScript.
  There are definitely some sites that actually need it, and for those, it's just one click to permanently allow for that site. But most of the sites I need work better with just CSS and HTML because there are no stupid nags or social media sign-in buttons that pop-up anymore.
- I installed NoScript just a few days ago, because I'm forced to use a really weak computer that struggles to even browse the modern web. I feel like NoScript improved it a lot, and while quite a few websites broke (including lemmy) (but most will still display the content), I just set the ones that I need working to trusted, but the performance is still good (I should note I'm also using it in conjunction with an automatic tab discarter).
  I however also don't directly use Google. Both SearX and Yandex don't need javascript, so I'm unaffected by these news, despite being a bit mad about it as a reflection of the direction the web is going as a whole.
  
  Try Ublock origin instead
  
  Same I started blocking js some sites that need it I will turn it on
- True

rip lynx browser, unless- alternative search engine?

Btw it’s possible to fingerprint people with JavaScript disabled. I found this article explaining and demonstrating if you’re curious.
- Yeah, it's not impossible, but it's much harder and you get a lot less info. You can also counteract the JS-less tracking with Firefox's privacy.resistFingerprinting, or by using the Tor Browser, which enables a lot of anti-surveillance measures by default. Here's also another good site for discovering how trackable you are: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
  
  It’s been a year or so since I’ve gone down this rabbit hole, but what I remember, the more you block ads and tracker, the more unique your browser becomes, and the more fingerprintable it is.
  Tor’s approach is to make every instance if the tor browser look as identical as possible to websites. But Tor is pretty niche. If Apple did the same with Safari, you would be an identical device in a match larger pool of devices.
  I think Apple has taken some measures, but not as well as Tot has.

Switch to Kagi
- Doesn't it require JavaScript?
- I get a notification every month telling me that they will charge me for my monthly Kagi subscription and every single month i feel the same:
  'Totally worth it!'
  
  I feel like their pricing would make more sense if you could just pay for your usage, rather than forcing a subscription

As a former web dev, good. I didn't get paid enough to care about the people that block JavaScript
- as a web dev graceful degregation should be the first thing you learn