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what's your position on western sanctions on russia? innocent russians have definitely died as a result of the sanctions
do you agree with the notion of a blockade but not with the specific group doing it? can an action be bad solely because of the party that's enacting it?
what’s your position on western sanctions on russia?
My position is that intentionally attacking civilians with military force is indefensible. I don't know why that's suddenly popular on some corners of the online left.
do you agree with the notion of a blockade but not with the specific group doing it?
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I dispute that the Houthis are genuinely attempting to blockade Israel
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I dispute that, even if they were, that their actions constitute in any way a viable way to blockade Israel
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I dispute that, even if their blockade was successful, that it would meaningfully impact Israel's ongoing genocide, considering that most trade that passes through the area isn't going to Israel, and that the amount of trade that does pass through to Israel through Eilat is not nearly significant enough to damage their ongoing efforts, which are not exactly stymied by a lack of cars from China or a lack of diamonds from India.
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I dispute that attacking civilians, a war crime, is morally acceptable. There are laws in the modern day, it's not the fucking Bronze Age.
I dispute that, even if they were, that their actions constitute in any way a viable way to blockade Israel
so their actions are bad because you don't think they'll be effective? honestly, pressuring global trade has historically been a pretty good way of achieving goals in capitalism
I dispute that attacking civilians, a war crime, is morally acceptable.
again, sanctions on russia have definitely killed people
so you're fine with people dying, just so long as they do it from freezing to death in their homes rather than by direct military action?
so their actions are bad because you don’t think they’ll be effective? honestly, pressuring global trade has historically been a pretty good way of achieving goals in capitalism
Thanks for giving up the game and admitting that you support this not because it blockades under 10% of Israel's trade, but because it disrupts non-Israeli trade.
again, sanctions on russia have definitely killed people
I'm sorry that the words 'attack' and 'war crime' mean nothing to you.
because it disrupts non-Israeli trade
so, just to set a baseline here, are we agreed that
- what israel is doing is bad
- stopping israel from doing what they're doing is good
- stopping israeli trade might stop what they're doing
- therefore stopping israel from trading is good
given that trade is definitionally between two separate parties, one of the countries in the equation has to not be israel
how can you stop israel from trading without impacting other countries?
tldr: the sanctions on russia also have an impact on global trade, so if this is your redline, you should be anti-sanctions
I'm sorry that the words 'attack' and 'war crime' mean nothing to you.
are you saying the blockade is different to sanctions because russia attacked ukraine and is committing war crimes?
i'm not sure if you've paid attention to things in israel recently
how can you stop israel from trading without impacting other countries?
tldr: the sanctions on russia also have an impact on global trade, so if this is your redline, you should be anti-sanctions
A desperate backtrack after giving up the game. Sorry that "Let's hurt trade between everyone we can, not just those trading with Israel" isn't what most people would regard as just.
are you saying the blockade is different to sanctions because russia attacked ukraine and is committing war crimes?
Brush up on your English.
fucking christ can you stop wanking yourself off with rhetoric for 5 minutes and actually address something i'm saying? ta
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Enforcing a punitive economic strategy isn't the same as engaging in glorified pirate terrorism because Iran told you to but you totally insist it's for palestinian liberation toats mcgoats my dudes!
Speaking as a Palestinian, fuck the houthis and their opportunistic bullshit with a hot iron.
Sanctions are not a blockade. Sanctions would be the Houthis stopping all of their own trade with Israel for example. The Houthis blockading Israel mesns they try to stop everybody from trading with Israel by force. Hence a blockade is an act of war.
And no I do not believe somebody being vegan is an act of war.
Hence a blockade is an act of war.
but we're not talking about something being an act of war
we're talking about whether it's morally justifiable
are you saying any offensive war is automatically unjustifiable?
Right now the Houthis in practise blockade the Bab-el-Mandeb for everybody. The first ship they sunk Rubymar, was Belize flagged and Lebanese operated and ultimatly owned. It also caused a massive enviromental disaster in the region, due to carrying fertilizer.
What I am saying, is that an act of war against Lebanon, is not a moral response to actions of the state of Israel.
However you clearly disagree with that and consider any and all action justified as long as somebody labels them anti Israel.
presumably if somebody's shipping weapons to israel, you'd be fine with the houthis sinking that ship? so you don't disagree with the blockade in principle, you just think it's being implemented too strictly?
Yes, if the Houthis would act differently, I would judge them differently.
But they do not.
how much restraint is appropriate when their stated goal is ending a genocide?