Jill Stein, Claudia De la Cruz, and Cornel West urge voters to Abandon Harris over Gaza

when did Trump tell Netanyahu to wait until after the elections?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/israels-netanyahu-will-meet-donald-trump-at-mar-a-lago-seeking-to-mend-rift
https://apnews.com/article/trump-netanyahu-gaza-war-israel-3d7a6b47060fbe51f66d82104ac5e1aa
https://www.reuters.com/world/netanyahu-denies-report-he-spoke-trump-about-gaza-talks-2024-08-15/
the news about their meeting paints the opposite picture of ending this asap
what do third parties standing up for human life have to do with Trump?
Hey Democrats, if your voters have concerns about your record on Gaza, then try to do better on Gaza. That's how this democracy thing is supposed to work.
Accusing your critics of being Trump-supporters is not a winning strategy. I thought you would have learned this by now.
- Sorry bud, US foreign policy doesn't align with your pro-terrorism preferences.
- If you want them to do better, they won't under trump.
  The third party candidates won't even exist in Congress, or the white house, so they don't matter.

It’s pretty telling that they’re not critical of “kill them faster” trump.

Oh, they have been very critical of Trump as well. Maybe that doesn't show up so much in this article, but they definitely do NOT like Trump.
Even tho this community would like you to believe they are all trying to get Trump elected. lol
- "The Democratic Party has not only been complicit, but it has been an investor, a collaborator, in genocide and in the slaughter and displacement of thousands of Palestinians – not only in the last 10 months, but in the last 76 years," the Party for Socialism and Liberation's Claudia De la Cruz told reporters on Monday.
  "We need to sit and hold that truth as people in the belly of empire, and we must understand our historic responsibility to do something for the sake of humanity."
  The news conference, organized by the Abandon Harris (formerly [Abandon Biden])campaign, took place as Democratic delegates and leaders come together to celebrate the nomination of Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.
  emphasis mine
  Oh yes. That’s quite clear.
- He says this, but he has yet to post an article of them actually being critical of Trump.
Because the Biden administration is the one committing genocide in Gaza. Not the Trump administration.
Is that too hard for you to understand?
- Is that too hard for you to understand?
  If you're going to be a condescending, the least you could do is actually be accurate.
  Because the Biden administration is the one committing genocide in Gaza. Not the Trump administration.
  Neither Biden, his administration, nor American troops in general are actively engaged in combat operations in Gaza. Sure, we're supplying arms, and yes, we can be critical of biden.
  By all means. I certainly am and have been.
  However, Harris doesn't set his administration's policy agenda. that's why it's the "Biden Administration" and not "the Harris Administration", right?
  Further, is it really that hard to grasp that in our stupid electoral system the choice is between either Trump or Harris, and that there are no circumstances at all in which Trump would be more beneficial to Palestinians?

I’m sure they do

“Hey Cornel West what should happen to the people of Ukraine and Taiwan?”

“Irrelevant”

“Hey Cornel West what do you think will be the outcome for the Palestinians of people refusing to vote for Harris in this election?”

“Did I stutter? Besides if any are still alive in 2036 when we’ve built enough momentum to be competitive (*) and we win, then I’m sure they’ll be super grateful about how much better my policies are at that point”

(*) not really

I don't know much about Cornel West, so I really have no opinion on that.
- You're not missing much
  If his message was "we desperately need a voting system that enables third parties to be viable, also we desperately need more humanity in our treatment of Palestinians right now because they are dying in large numbers, let's work towards both of those interrelated things" then it'd be gold. He is silent on the first one, though, and actively trying to undermine the second through his actions.
  The fact that he's performatively trying to advertise how nice the second one would be won't help the Palestinians if Trump comes to power and doubles the weapons shipments and joins with Netanyahu in his attempts to undermine any humanitarian aid and any peace process. Lobbying the Democrats, threatening the Democrats, demanding concessions from the Democrats, all of those things are likely to help Palestinians to some degree. Voting for Cornel West in the 2024 election is a vote for turning Gaza into a massive graveyard.
- West is actually a pretty brilliant social scientist. He did a great "Philosopher's Commentary" track for the Matrix. Not even kidding, and had a bit role in the sequels.
  I love him like a brother, but he has no business running for President.

Because electing Trump would be soooo much better for Gaza...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/5/trump-says-israel-losing-pr-war-in-gaza-should-finish-war-fast

“I guess it makes them look tough. But to me, it doesn’t make them look tough. They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”

Claudia De La Cruz and Cornell West aren't on the ballot in enough states to win a ham sandwich.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_access_in_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election

Stein technically is on the ballot in enough states to win, but she represents a party that continually hovers around 1% or less. The best the Greens have done was under Ralph Nader 24 years ago and is largely blamed for 8 years of George W. Bush.

Only 2 parties are on the ballot in all states, Democratic and Republican. The winner of the election will be from one of those two parties.

You help Harris win or you get a President who thinks Israel needs to wipe out Gaza faster.

So are you picking Harris not because she will not do the same things but because she would do the same things but in a slower fashion and also just to show that we have no other options?
not sure that would classify as a democracy are you trying to enforce the elite’s false dichotomy?
- I'm picking Harris because Trump would accelerate the genocide and bring the worst Israeli policies here.
  Israel illegally invaded Lebanon to set up a "security zone":
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
  Trump would do the same for Mexico:
  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/donald-trump-mexico-military-cartels-war-on-drugs-1234705804/

"You've had two beers, I'm getting a ride home with tequila Tim."

"He just puked on himself and rinsed his mouth with three more shots!"

"Whatever. I might die and we might kill some randoms on the way home buy maybe you'll learn your lesson for next time!"

[but] maybe you'll learn your lesson for next time!
Or you could realize that those two drivers are not your only options. Get a cab, walk to a bus stop, or find a different driver.
It’s not about teaching Tim a lesson. It’s about getting yourself home safely.
- What is the other option in American democracy? A third party that's not going to win?
- Nope. Bar is 100 miles from anywhere, no bus, no one else left with a car.
buzzed driving is still driving intoxicated and drunk driving is also drunk driving
so you are for drunk driving and for Harris but third parties are where you draw the line?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Z3GcdgkQ8
- I am for what would actually help.
  In the case of Palestine, a vote for a third party helps those who would make things worse for innocent Palestineans.
- No one is supporting drunk driving.
  In the silly hypothetical, you MUST leave the bar in a car. There are only 2.
  You have to pick. It's not realistic because in real life you could get an Uber or walk.
  I'm with 2 beers over tim.

Well, fuck THAT noise.

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De la Cruz said Democrats will face consequences if they continue to ignore widespread calls for justice and peace.

your vote should represent you as a person

is keeping your fellow citizens down like crabs do after being caught and are in the bucket along with genocide what you represent or is it justice and peace?

think their message was quite plain and directed at the right people the political leaders who represent us the people and who are constantly failing even with their own promises laid out in their platform which is moving to the right with other issues as well like the southern border

was directed in that sense to the Republicans too who the Democrats are acting like and that we need new parties to fix this mess

that was the message

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssd3U_zicAI

your vote should represent you as a person
My vote shouldn't actively work to increase Palestinian suffering. Crazy thought.

Ive abandoned her and that party years ago.

Democrats are a formal fallacy because they are unsound due to their structure and the Republicans are an informal fallacy due to their content making them unsound.

False Dilemma

Definition
A false dilemma is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available.[1][2][3] In its most simple form, called the fallacy of bifurcation, all but two alternatives are excluded. A fallacy is an argument, i.e. a series of premises together with a conclusion, that is unsound, i.e. not both valid and true. Fallacies are usually divided into formal and informal fallacies. Formal fallacies are unsound because of their structure, while informal fallacies are unsound because of their content.[3][4][1][5] The problematic content in the case of the false dilemma has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives.[1] Sometimes a distinction is made between a false dilemma and a false dichotomy. On this view, the term “false dichotomy” refers to the false disjunctive claim while the term “false dilemma” refers not just to this claim but to the argument based on this claim.[1]

What's false about the situation? Do you realistically believe a third party candidate will win, or even be competitive? If so, on what evidence?
Else the options are NOT erroneously limited.
You'd have to go back to 1850 I think to find a non R or D president, and there's zero consistent comparison between the elections of today and back then.
- living in country with citizens who already think they have lost their options no do not think third parties will have any chance until the people finally wake up

People always have some knee-jerk reaction to Third parties doing what they should here. If Harris is serious then give those voting blocks reason to support you. "But Trump" isn't the conversation.

The argument centers on how the third party critique is always surrounding democrats, and never republicans. Democrats deserve their blame, but voting third party means empowering republicans, who will amplify the very concepts third party candidates often decry. So much so that it starts to smell of a ruse, cause who could be that short sighted?
The concept of staying home or voting third party means democrats lose seats all down the roster.
I'm voting for harm reduction, not a feel good soap box opinion. I don't feel good about any of this shit, I just want less dead people and less corruption over the coming years than it would be with Republicans in power.
- There is no such thing as harm reduction. Harm is only relocated. If you don't vote to actually change direction, it is just kicking the can down the road. I think it is good to have pressure from parties outside of Dems. There are tons of people not voting at all that out number any 3rd party voting block. Shift focus to them.
Agreed.