Introducing Proton Wallet – a safer way to hold Bitcoin

Please stop releasing new products and finish the ones you've got. I've been waiting for feature parity on the Linux VPN client since like 5 product launches ago...

Fucking YES. Good God it's like at this point just STOP. Take a BREATH. And focus on what you have. They need to stop spreading themselves so thin.
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I suggest using Mullvad VPN as it is much more private and secure and has a fully functioning stable linux client.
- Except they don't support Port forwarding, which is kind of necessary if you torrent a lot and have shit upload speeds like me. Gotta squeeze out as much juice as I can get...
- Mullvad is the GOAT. There is no reason to use anything else.
I tried ProtonVPN and got a refund, because their Linux implementation is lacking

Why

They want to become a money transfer service. The whole Bitcoin by email thing, it's a play to make themselves the middleman of a Venmo type architecture

So any two proton users who have the wallet enabled, can send and receive money seamlessly using their custodial key management.....
- Sorry, I understand why a company would want to capitalize on the crypto bubble if it was 2022, but I meant this more as an existential "whyyyyy" but didn't have the energy for that.
- You are probably right, and I hate it.
- It's a self-custody wallet, they do not control the keys.
Exactly. Bitcoin is a zombie technology. And Monero is taking the reins.
- All crypto-currencies are overhyped, almost cult-like trash that do nothing but create problems and waste energy. The whole lot of them, no exceptions and they will all fade away eventually, when the fad moves on.
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- You can do that already

It's crazy that they chose bitcoin over monero

They're a for-profit: they cater to the most successful scam.
- Didn't they just switch to a nonprofit format, though?
- Actually, they claim to transition to a non-profit model.
Or shielded Zcash

“After years of pushing their proprietary and closed solutions to privacy minded people Proton decided that it was in their best interest to further bury said users into their service as a form of vendor lock-in. To achieve this they made yet another non-standard implementation of something that already existed, this time a crypto wallet." :)

Who are you quoting? And which proton solutions aren’t open source?
- Proton Calendar mobile app code is still unreleased. They've been promising to release it for a year and a half already.
Good alternatives? I like their mail client and the possibility for aliases that I can generate and lock once they get spammed with newsletters.
- Use addy.io for aliases. Use a different privacy focused mailbox for your mail. I'd advice you to strictly seperate these two things like that so you remain independent.

You would think that someone at Proton would've had the foresight to realise the reputational damage this (along with the LLM announcement) would do to the company.

Without wanting to sound smart after the fact, I've been suspicious about Proton for years. I briefly had an email account with them but I could never quite shake the feeling there is something off about the whole company. This move just confirms to me I was correct to be suspicious.

Out of interest what was it you were suspicious of?
- A few little things rather than one or two big things - email advertised as private but they won't let you use anonymous addresses (like anonaddy or duck.com) for recovery addresses, an ever growing portfolio of products that seem unfinished or incomplete or lacking in standard features like they're trying to corner the whole privacy market rather than making one or two products but making them really good, poor customer service and support as a continual theme throughout their existence.
  
  To be clear, I'm not suggesting they're doing anything dodgy, I just feel that I don't really trust them. They just make really odd choices and it all feels like a haphazard rush.

Its crazy that this article doesn't even have a single section that warms the user that all of their transactions will be publicly visible.

You would think a privacy company would use a privacy coin. Did they give up on privacy?

Are they going to publish all of their customers emails publicly too? Or only their monetary transactions?

People actually use bitcoin for critical use cases. It satisfies needs in their lives that don't just have to do with crypto. Another vanity coin is not a substitute.
- I said a privacy coin. Not a vanity coin.
  
  People actually use monero for critical use cases where privacy is important.

Oh no no no no no. I half thought this was like an onion article or something. Seems like a pivotal misstep

No

Nostr communities were calling it a honeypot (even though all they talk about everyday is cryptocurrencies). I am also calling it a honeypot. Also, if they care about privacy, why not make Proton Wallet compatible with Monero? This is why I left Protonmail after one year of using it. They are the shittiest privacy company ever. They only seem like they care about privacy, but I know they aren't. I mean, any privacy focused company that has that "Hot now" or "Best seller" etc. thing on their pricing page can't be trusted. I switched to Posteo since their privacy policy and website seem to be much much better than what Protonmail's ever could be. They don't even support POP3, fortunately Posteo does. Proton was redirecting Tor users from their .onion domains to clear net domains a few years ago and even then they were requiring a SMS verification just because you were using Tor. How "private" of them.

People on Lemmy really should start realizing this about Proton but some are just stubborn.

They are the shittiest company ever.

You are allowed to hate Proton, but don't be hyperbolic about it. There are far worse companies, just a few of which are Nestlé, Del Monte, and Chiquita (formerly the United Food Company), all of which have committed genocide in the pursuit of their profit.

The last time I checked, Proton has never committed genocide to further their goals.
- How did you get from Proton to Nestle? I am here to discuss privacy and tech, not food.
i wonder if they are a honeypot too

If you use a free tier VPN, which doesn't allow torrenting, then connect tor to it, then connect another non-tor encrypted connection to that (such as a different VPN), if you torrent from the different VPN (an encrypted VPN stream that passes through Proton), they still detect torrenting. This suggests advanced DPI. What no log VPN needs DPI?

They also have dark design elements including logs you have to turn off by default.

Proton also does aggressive scanning of certain things users do and will shut down accounts based on that. The problem is what privacy focused company scans user stuff like that?

They also log multiple browser metrics when signing up or at least access them, such as audio context fingerprints. Is that really important for the sign up process?

It wasn't bad they gave up info to jail an activist, it was bad they said in their marketing materials they couldnt and didnt do that.

ProtonVPN also for many years never accepted Monero and their email didn't as well. So they care about privacy, but won't accept the privacy crypto? There wasn't a rational explanation for it, unless they are a honeypot. There were third parties who could have accepted the funds. The whole thing was unusual. It was incredibly suspicious. If you care about privacy so much, why not accept Monero for your email services? This is the most damning part of this. If they are a honeypot, it makes sense, if they aren't it's a head scratcher.

It could be a coincidence? Possibly? But probably it isn't. Everyone who loves privacy loves XMR. They don't like XMR. You know who hates XMR? Governments. And so if someone is saying "I love privacy" and has numerous complex programs released, but then says XMR is too hard to accept, it should indicate something is odd.
- Exactly. There's no reason for them to support Bitcoin over Monero in their wallet if they care about privacy. Also, bitcoin can be used for paying for their subscriptions but not monero.
  
  Their reason is just so that crypto bros get interested in it and other people who are still under the assumption that bitcoin is the most private and secure.
  
  https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/935538-accounts-payments/suggestions/33188971-monero-payment-option
  
  This has been ignored by Proton for over 6 years now. And it has like 2800 votes.
  
  This is a pretty big red flag for a privacy company.

Long term Proton User here and general privacy enthusiast. Don't read into that as I'm wedded to proton, or a shill. Genuinely looking for others opinion here.

Why does this indicate the company is no longer commited to privacy and indicate that its clearly some sort of a sham? I'm no crypto expert, the only crypto I have any of is XMR and even thats just reserved for as and when services allow me to pay with it. Really this new offering is of no interest or use to me so I'm by no means defending it. The same goes for their AI. I'm struggling to understand how these 2 decisions are being perceived as the death of Proton and how its no longer a Privacy Company though?

From my understanding, Protons offerings are still worlds more private than other mainstream offerings, and still come with a fairly high degree of quality of life features that make it easy for Joe public to use and not be put off by lack of features. Is this not still a major victory in the grand scheme of all privacy rights being slowly stripped away?

Have I missed something else behind the scenes around Proton's practice's that are indicative of a larger problem or are people annoyed more so that Proton haven't fixed long outstanding pain points with their existing solutions? Trust me, I understand the frustration as a Linux user that several features dont work but as a business I also appreciate proton have to stay ahead in the market and appeal to the masses in order to make a profit and keep running effectively as a business so would love to hear some other views on why this and AI has been so badly recievdd as a whole by the privacy community.

Also, what alternatives are there I have missed that work well on android and Linux without making sacrifices? Always down to try alternatives

Proton is the main predator and one of first who started with the boom privacy scandals and when this “privacy market” started. Also NEVER give all your stuff and depend on one company. In IT is something that causes severe harm just because management want to get the bonus by saving money. A lot of people made billions from the fear of privacy. Terror terror terrror terror terror oil oil oil oil

Predatory is an interesting view, how so?

Why build Proton Wallet?

Early in our journey, we experienced first-hand what it’s like being cut off from the financial system and at the mercy of large banks and institutions — an ordeal that affects millions of people across the globe. In the summer of 2014, as the original Proton Mail crowdfunding campaign was in progress, Proton had a near-death experience when PayPal froze our funds(new window), questioned whether encryption was legal, and whether Proton had government approval to encrypt emails.

Fortunately, in that instance PayPal returned the blocked funds, and Proton was able to start the journey that we’ve been on for the past decade. However, that dangerous moment has always stayed in our minds, and we still keep a proportion of Proton’s financial reserves in Bitcoin.

Having experienced firsthand the unreliability of the traditional financial sector, building Proton Wallet is an important strategic move to make Proton more resilient and independent in the future. By enabling us and the entire Proton community to more easily adopt means of payment that deliver on the promise of financial freedom for all, we better insulate Proton from the risks posed by traditional finance.