European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

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Automotive Industry @discuss.tchncs.de

copacetic @discuss.tchncs.de

1年前

European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com /cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-back-buttons-to-get-good-safety-scores-in-europe/

395 评论

Touch screens should not be used for any controls needed to operate a car. You can't use them without taking your eyes off the road.
- Technically the only thing you're allowed to fiddle with, while driving, is what you can operate from the steering wheel. You're not supposed to fiddle with radio, AC etc. from the center console while driving even if it's physical buttons.
  I know people don't drive like this, but you're only allowed to take your hands off the steering wheel for changing gears if driving a manual, otherwise it's two hands on there at all times...technically
  
  Wait... what? What???
  
  Seems like a few countries should go over their laws again and prohibit those models from being sold. I don't know what else would be effective
  
  Tesla is very confident their customers won't need steering wheel anymore soon, so they went ahead and fuck the steering wheel even though the autopilot can't work in all circumstances yet.
  
  Yes touch controls, but the comment I replied to mentioned touch screens (so usually the centre console), which only contains thing you don't really need to manage while driving.
  
  Suggesting he is confusing the point of the article.
  
  Clarify allowed. Is it actually illegal in the EU to turn on the radio or air conditioning while driving unless the buttons allow you to do it from the steering wheel?
  
  Is it actually illegal in the EU
  What's allowed differs per country.
  
  It differs from country to country, but where I live you can technically be fined for it. You will also fail your drivers test if you do it.
  
  Where I live changing the AC is a task they can ask you while on the test.
  If you do it dangerously such as swerving or taking your eyes off the road for extended periods then you can fail the test.
  
  Is "you're the passenger, you do it, please," an acceptable response?
  
  "I won't always be here to passenge for you!"
  
  Of course
  
  What country is that?
  
  I'm more concerned about fog lights, emergency lights, and Window heating, as law usually requires you to be able to use them if conditions require it.
  
  The wording is probably similar here, but very few critical systems are not controllable from the steering wheel.
  Wipers, volume, AC, cruise control are all controlled from the steering wheel of modern cars, there's really not anything you need to do from the centre console to drive safely. If it's not a critical system, you shouldn't be using it, physical buttons or not.
  
  I've never seen a car where you can adjust the AC from the wheel.
  
  Same, I've got an Opel Corsa from 2016, so it's pretty much brand new.
  The only things in the wheel are the speed control, wipers, and default lights.
  For everything else required for driving, such as fog lights, emergency lights, front and back Window heating, AC, radio, and of course the shift stick, I'll need to remove a hand from the wheel.
  Luckily for me, the Touchscreen in the middle only handles less important things like navigation and external music sources.
  
  Wait, you don't even get radio volume, next track etc on the wheel?
  
  Oh right, I do actually have track, volume, and "take call" on the wheel. I think I did use them once, but it just never stuck since they felt awkward to use.
  
  Mine can 🤷‍♂️ thought that was just about normal these days actually.
  
  How much crap is on your steering wheel? What model of car is this, anyway?
  
  Are you counting the stalks behind the wheel as on the steering wheel?
  
  It's funny that hazard lights are not included in the list and while they're not part of a touch screen interface for any car as far as I know, I also know some older cars used to mount that button on top of the steering wheel and I kind of wish we could go back to that.
  
  Yes, you can operate them without letting go of the steering wheel or taking your eyes off the road.
  
  I'm definitely taking my hand off the wheel to operate things like headlights or wiper speed, which are dials on the end of a stalk. It would be really difficult not to.
  
  Its all placed in the left/right spokes of the steering wheel, your hands shouldn't grab that part...how the hell do you grab it if that stuff is in the way!?
  
  Hands on 10 and 2 while operating the 2 ton death trap!
  
  Phew im good then, my car weighs 1 ton so i can just drive with one hand right?
  
  The math checks out.
  
  Actually your hands are supposed to be at 9 and 3
  
  Didn't Tesla put the wiper settings on the center console
  
  It's always been a button on the left stalk at the steering wheel, and for quite a while wiper speed has been adjustable from the left scroll-button on the steering wheel as well.
  
  So if my windows fog over I shouldn't be able to put the defrost on?
  
  You should have configured your AC before you started driving.
  I haven't had windows fog up during a drive spontaneously since forever ago when AC became standard in even cheap vehicles since they dry the air.
  
  You've never driven in a humid tunnel, or live in a place with changing weather do you?
  
  Oh I do, we have almost 200 days of precipitation yearly, and temperatures fluctuating wildly between days all seasons of the year.
  
  Some tunnels where I live explicitly instruct you to adjust your AC before entering.
  I'm allowed to adjust anything within arms reach as long as I keep my eyes on the road. It is my responsibility to familiarize myself with the controls before departing so I can do so.
  
  I'm driving. There is not a drop of rain in the sky. 2 hours into my drive it starts raining and my windows fog up. Your answer is I should have turned on the defrost before I left. Interesting. Against reason and human nature. But interesting.
  
  What kind of shit-buckets are you people driving that requires you to turn on defrost just because it starts raining!?
  I regularly drive in conditions that go from sunny to rainy, or even sunny to snow/slush...that's pretty much all our weather is where I live. I never have to start defrost mode while driving, ever. I use defrost to defrost and remove ice from the the car before I start driving, the AC keeps everything fine without me adjusting anything no matter the change of conditions while I'm driving.
  
  I generally get cold. I don't turn on the A/C unless it's hot out. So generally what happens is, in winter (because of where I live and the amount of daily precipitation) I either leave the climate controls off or I turn them on when I get cold or when my windshield starts to fog over. Not everyone who drives a car drives a nice brand new car with nice modern brand new features.
  I don't know what kind of car you do drive but I will say your experience is probably not the norm and certainly not enough to justify your original statement. You keep using the term A/C which suggests to me that you have climate controls that either automatically adjust to a specific setting when you start the car, or you turn the A/C on every time you get in the car.
  How much condensation builds up depends on a lot of factors. Your own body chemistry can add to it. I have a friend who runs hot and every time he gets in the car he cracks the window because if he doesn't him sitting there will fog that window up.
  
  AC also keeps the car warm you know...and yes, I tell it to keep my car at 21°C and it does just that. Its a Peugeot 308, medium trim level, that's more than a decade old with +250k km on it, I'm not driving a nice new car at all. My wife's VW up is exactly the same, also not new and definitely not a "nice" car.
  
  The AC does not keep the car warm. The HVAC system does. The AC settings specifically do two things. They lower the temperature of the car, or a blend door is used to allow air cooled by the AC system to mix with air heated by the heater core to provide temperature between the absolute maximum heat and the absolute maximum cold.
  But regardless, you tell it to keep your car at a specific temperature. That's not how I or seemingly most people use their climate controls.
  On days where I used to have drill, my drilling station was something like 70 miles away from my home. If it's not raining and in comfortable I don't turn on the climate control system at all. But weather absolutely can be much different there than it is at my home. Climate control is there when I need it. Same as manually controlled headlights, or, wipers, or the map light. I don't need to take my eyes off the road to press the dedicated defrost button. I drive a manual car so taking my right hand off the wheel for shifting is normal and I really don't understand why anyone would advocate for changing any of those settings to a touch screen.
  
  Technically, you know vehicles went 80 years without any steering controls? Buttons on the wheel still isn't a requirement.
  
  Suspect it depends on where you live, but you're not wrong.
  I think I've driven a million kilometres by now, it's all become so fucking boring and second nature, that you start really being sloppy and distracted. Because you gained so much experience, you start to (unconciously) overestimate your skills.
  But the two hands thing really is necessary for if you hit something slippy or need to make an unexpected manoeuvre. The risks of driving are incredibly low, but if shit does hit the fan you're in for a world of trouble if you're doing something else.
  
  "allowed"? where do you live with such laws?

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