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Keep it civil. Disagreements will happen both on lore and preferences. That's okay! Just don't let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.
I find this ironic with Stamets as
an admina moderator, considering they participated in a dogpile on Risa because I made a joke that they didn't like and was completely harmless:
They deleted the comment because of the obvious toxicity, but considering the weight they pull in these communities and they were the first to comment, it's clear they had started the toxic dog piling. No apology, no trying to get others to tone it down. Just deleted their comment to hide their shame.
How can we trust the
adminsmoderators here won't do the same as what happened in Risa?*edited for formatting and admin -> moderator
Edit 2: In this comment thread you will see exactly why you should all question Stamet's ability to follow their own rules of their community and fail to be an example of how a community moderator should act. They clearly forgot they were talking to a person and intentionally inserted their own interpretations on my own words. Rather than fully owning up to their own actions, they try to downplay it with excuses and even double down on their toxic comments which they claim to be "sorry" and apologize.
It seems like I might need to screenshot this thread as well, before they delete it and try to pretend it never happened.
First off, I'm a mod. Not an Admin.
Second, that comment was made 4 months ago (The comment even says Stamets@Startrek.website, an account that's been deleted for nearly two months) and deleted almost immediately after posting because I felt like a dick. You even say as much because of the 'obvious toxicity'. This is true. I was trying to be a better person so I deleted it. Also, no. I didn't "start the toxic dogpiling". This is even proven by the comment directly under mine in that screenshot which is someone else calling you out. You also didn't make the post. You had commented on my post.
If you want an apology, all you ever had to do was ask. Something you have never done. I never offered one up because I didn't realize the app you are using kept deleted messages. I felt like a dick and deleted it. I never even realized you harbored this grudge considering, again, this is 4 months later and you've yet to address this to me directly. I just went through 5 months of your posting history and I cannot find a singular time that you talked to me about this. I went through my messages and I cannot find a single message from you about this.
I'm sorry. Wasn't my intention to hurt you which is why I deleted the comment immediately after. But I am not psychic and had no idea you felt this way. All you ever had to do was address this to me. I am genuinely sorry. I hope you have a good day and that things go well for you.
Edit: I forgot to respond to the last line.
How can we trust the admins here won’t do the same as what happened in Risa?
Risa was run by a singular moderator when we started setting up TenForward. That was a major point of failure. When I set up TenForward I asked multiple people to join, all of us with different stances and opinions, to make a more robust team. We generally run things past one another and if something comes up with someone elses behavior, we will address it. If we are heavy handed with our powers or the other mods disagree repeatedly, then we will step down or be removed. And if you want to report moderator abuse you can feel free to do so to the admins. You wouldn't be the first and they do take action. Startrek.website admins never cared about what USS BurritoTruck was doing despite being messaged by multiple people about the problems inherent to Risa.
First off, I’m a mod. Not an Admin.
Really? You felt it was important to start off with this tone on semantics?
Second, that comment was made 4 months ago
Why does that matter?
Also, no. I didn’t “start the toxic dogpiling”. This is even proven by the comment directly under mine in that screenshot which is someone else calling you out.
Your comment was the first reply.
You also didn’t make the post. You had commented on my post.
I never made that claim. Why even bring this up? Does it matter?
again, this is 4 months later and you’ve yet to address this to me directly.
Again, why does it matter that it was 4 months? What if it was 6 months? 4 weeks? 4 days? How does that change your actions?
This is what happened: You created a post. I made a harmless joke. You didn't like that joke and made a toxic comment. Other people didn't like that joke and joined in to make toxic comments. I called those people out for being toxic since my joke was aimed at no individual and completely harmless, and the backlash for that was all toxic comments aimed at me for just shooting my shot to make other people laugh. When I called people out for being toxic that included you which is why I had that screenshot and I even pinged you directly with it.
If you want an apology, all you ever had to do was ask. Something you have never done. I never offered one up because I didn’t realize the app you are using kept deleted messages. I felt like a dick and deleted it. I never even realized you harbored this grudge considering, again, this is 4 months later and you’ve yet to address this to me directly. I just went through 5 months of your posting history and I cannot find a singular time that you talked to me about this. I went through my messages and I cannot find a single message from you about this.
Why would I try to pursue you for an apology when I already pinged you and called you and everyone out at the place it happened? Instead I blocked you and the Risa community after plenty of evidence of toxicity.
I even mentioned this situation to The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website: https://lemmy.world/comment/5214666
I’m sorry. Wasn’t my intention to hurt you which is why I deleted the comment immediately after. But I am not psychic and had no idea you felt this way. All you ever had to do was address this to me. I am genuinely sorry. I hope you have a good day and that things go well for you.
How can I even take this apology seriously in the context of tone of this whole comment?
Wow. Okay. I think like you read a lot of negative tone into my comment that wasn't there so I'm going to explicitly say here and now that my tone is polite and casual. I am not trying to be accusatory.
Really? You felt it was important to start off with this tone on semantics?
It's not semantics in this case. Due to there being many different instances with many different admins, I felt that it was important to distinguish. Not for you specifically but in general.
Why does that matter?
Because you have not said anything about this for 4 months and have suddenly brought it up out of nowhere.
Your comment was the first reply.
No. It was not. This is proven in the screenshot you yourself posted as the person below me is responding to the exact same comment. My tone is now starting to change from friendly to cautious because I'm not a huge fan of being lied about, especially when you yourself have posted the proof against your own claim.
I never made that claim. Why even bring this up? Does it matter?
That is on me. I misread something.
Again, why does it matter that it was 4 months? What if it was 6 months? 4 weeks? 4 days? How does that change your actions?
It doesn't change my actions. It reflects yours. You haven't said anything about this for months and made a screenshot immediately of it. You never talked about this to me. You never gave me a chance to apologize. You never addressed to me at all.
This is what happened: You created a post. I made a harmless joke. You didn’t like that joke and made a toxic comment. Other people didn’t like that joke and joined in to make toxic comments. I called those people out for being toxic since my joke was aimed at no individual and completely harmless, and the backlash for that was all toxic comments aimed at me for just shooting my shot to make other people laugh. When I called people out for being toxic that included you which is why I had that screenshot and I even pinged you directly with it.
No. You made a toxic comment. You made some "joke" that all the cast of SNW were too pretty or too beautiful. It was a backhanded and snarky comment which is why you were called jealous by the person in your screenshot. This is also why I said that you want what you can't have. As for the ping, I didn't get one or at least never saw one. But the last thing I would have been interested in doing in that moment would have been doubling down in public. If I got a ping like that I would have sent a private apology. Because I deleted it due to feeling like a dick. Did I think your comment was tasteless, unfunny, and frankly kind of rude? Yeah. But did I feel like a douchebag for being negative towards you? Yes. Thus why it was deleted almost immediately.
How can I even take this apology seriously in the context of tone of this whole comment?
That's on you. The tone of my comment was not intended the way that you clearly took it. For that I also apologize in being unclear. But I am not trying to be angry or hostile or bitter here. Just genuinely saying that I am sorry, that I didn't know you were upset, and that I can't apologize for something I didn't know was a thing.
Wow. Okay. I think like you read a lot of negative tone into my comment that wasn’t there so I’m going to explicitly say here and now that my tone is polite and casual. I am not trying to be accusatory.
Well, here is part of the issue. As much as it may not have been your intention to come off so negative, you still achieved that based on your message. My reasoning for that is you started off by correcting my incorrect choice of word. I acknowledge I used the wrong term here as an admin is different from a moderator. However, if your goal was to take responsibility and apologize, that's not a great way to start off. It absolutely sets the tone for the rest of your message. Your apology and acknowledgement of your actions are buried in things that come off as excuses and defensiveness. See here with the message highlighted to visualize the negative vs positive connotation. Though, FYI, what is also important is to note that pointing out the specific difference between words is in fact "semantics", just like this sentence is in regards to the semantics of the word "semantics" itself. So "It’s not semantics in this case." is just not accurate.
No. It was not. This is proven in the screenshot you yourself posted as the person below me is responding to the exact same comment. My tone is now starting to change from friendly to cautious because I’m not a huge fan of being lied about, especially when you yourself have posted the proof against your own claim.
I'm not sure why you're assuming that just because there is another comment along side yours is proof that your comment was not first. Since the whole post is gone and neither of us can reference it directly I can only go off memory. I recall yours being first, but let's assume I was partially wrong and your comment was only among the first. My issue with it is that you have a large amount of weight in the Star Trek communities, and particularly under your own posts, and so when you post a toxic comment it shows others that it's okay to do so as well. Because of your weight in the community, and now that you are a moderator it's even more prudent, that you are held to a higher standard. Because you set the bar for what is acceptable in these communities. When you make a comment it's more than just moving a small rock, it becomes more of a land slide.
It doesn’t change my actions. It reflects yours. You haven’t said anything about this for months and made a screenshot immediately of it. You never talked about this to me. You never gave me a chance to apologize. You never addressed to me at all.
It feels like you're trying to shift blame here or something. I did try to address you. I called everyone out on that comment thread for their toxicity. The reason why that screenshot exists is because I called you out in particular. I still don't even see how it's relevant, but I'd rather move on from this point.
No. You made a toxic comment. You made some “joke” that all the cast of SNW were too pretty or too beautiful. It was a backhanded and snarky comment which is why you were called jealous by the person in your screenshot. This is also why I said that you want what you can’t have. As for the ping, I didn’t get one or at least never saw one. But the last thing I would have been interested in doing in that moment would have been doubling down in public. If I got a ping like that I would have sent a private apology. Because I deleted it due to feeling like a dick. Did I think your comment was tasteless, unfunny, and frankly kind of rude? Yeah. But did I feel like a douchebag for being negative towards you? Yes. Thus why it was deleted almost immediately.
Wow. This is just purely insulting and toxic. The joke I made was "Ah yes, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, the show where only beautiful people are allowed" or along those lines. I was not calling anyone "too pretty" or "too beautiful", it was a comment/joke on how it feels unrealistic with the way everyone looks like super models which, yes, is a backhanded and snarky remark on the state of Hollywood and our media. And now here you are doubling down on the toxic comment! Why the hell do you need to provide the reason or logic for the toxic comment? Seriously? How the hell else am I supposed to interpret this as anything but negative? "Disagreements will happen both on lore and preferences. That’s okay! Just don’t let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person."
Additionally, even though you deleted your comment it does not undo what you did. Did you just think no one saw your comment and it had no effect so you could just delete it and pretend it never happened? Well, people saw your comment, including the person your toxicity was aimed at. You participated in a dogpile in a community where you hold a lot of weight, and under one of your own posts. You say you felt bad enough to delete the comment, but then stood by while others did the same. You had to have seen all of that when you went to delete the comment. What did you do when deleting your comment? You just moved on and tried to pretend your comment didn't exist. If you honestly felt bad for it, then why should I be expected to request an apology from you? I've never heard of anyone requiring someone to request an apology for their poor behavior, and I would never even consider that a requirement for anyone I slighted even if accidental. What kind of weight would a private apology have compared to the public toxicity you showed towards me?
Look, I am bringing this up now because you are now a moderator for a new community. I am hoping that knowing the consequences of your actions will help you make better decisions in the future. I am trying to hold you to your own community's rule of "Just don’t let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.". I suggest instead of deleting a comment entirely, edit out the toxicity and explain why you removed it. That in itself would have been its own apology. Like I mentioned before, your actions have more weight than the average user and because of that you need to be held to a higher standard since you set the bar for how people interact in this community. This is an opportunity to start to move this community away from toxic behaviors, and it has to start by setting a new standard yourself with your own actions. You want a chance to right your wrong? Here is your chance. Don't try to excuse yourself or pass the blame. Just simply acknowledge what you did, apologize, and try to do better in the future. If you see dogpiling, step in and say something.
My reasoning for that is you started off by correcting my incorrect choice of word.
Because that was the opening of your message. I responded to your comment piece by piece, exactly as you did to me immediately after. Like I said, you assumed my tone and then acted off of that instead of asking for clarification.
My issue with it is that you have a large amount of weight in the Star Trek communities, and particularly under your own posts, and so when you post a toxic comment it shows others that it’s okay to do so as well.
The comment was deleted within 5 minutes, something that you are repeatedly ignoring and failing to leave out. Your entire lecture is predicated off of the assumption that the comment was left up long enough for a large number of people to see it which is just not true. It was deleted within 5 minutes. Pretty much the only people to see it were you and maybe 5 other people. You have shown that comment to more people than ever originally saw it when it was posted. You are giving more creedence and giving it more power than I ever did. You keep insisting and acting that I have "all this weight" and that it "won't undo what I did" and that people follow me around and will see what I'm doing and then think it's okay to do. That might be true. But what you have repeatedly failed to point out is that there was not enough time for that to even happen. You are lecturing me about a non-event.
I am hoping that knowing the consequences of your actions will help you make better decisions in the future. I am trying to hold you to your own community’s rule of “Just don’t let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.”
No. You are not. You are actively stirring up nonsense and causing drama. The comment was deleted months ago. The comment was on an unrelated community. The comment was before the rules were ever in existence. You are trying to hold the past accountable to rules from the present. You are acting as if I have done it today. You are trying to lecture me on my behavior as a moderator for private comments that were made months before I was ever appointed a moderator to any community anywhere. If I had done that as a mod, you would have a point. But I didn't. That would be if any of your points were valid in the first place. The only foot you have is that I insulted you and that was a dick thing for me to do. This is true and why I deleted. But every one of your other complaints is based off of a false assumption that not just the community as a whole saw it and thought it was fine but that I also didn't care. Both are untrue.
You want a chance to right your wrong? Here is your chance. Don’t try to excuse yourself or pass the blame. Just simply acknowledge what you did, apologize, and try to do better in the future.
I did. You want it again? I am sorry that I made that comment that insulted you personally. I felt like a dick and that is why I deleted the comment. It wasn't right of me to do and I shouldn't have done it. I am sorry you felt that way and it's something I've been striving to not do in the months since.
I have nothing else to apologize for when it comes to my behavior surrounding you.
If you see dogpiling, step in and say something.
If it is in a community that I moderate? Absolutely. Which I do. But you don't get to lecture me and tell me what to do as an individual. I might step in. I might not. That's my decision to make, not yours. I am not a public servant who answers to the people. I am a person. If you disagree with me, downvote me. If you don't like me, block me. But you do not get to stand on a pedestal and dictate how I will act.
I am not engaging with you further. If you have any moderation concerns, feel free to message one of the other moderators. If you have any concerns about my behavior, report it to the moderators of that community.
I am done listening to you.
This is a really poor example of how a community moderator should act. Stamets is clearly being insulting and intentionally misinterpreting my statements. This is the EXACT reason why I called them out on their past behavior, because they clearly cannot be trusted to be a good example for a community, let alone moderate one.
This is a public call out to the other mods on this behavior.
You have made your point. I see no reason to continue engaging.
Your needless toxicity aside, this winds up being somewhat accurate as I was wrongfully treated. Thanks.
We can't. That's part of the reason I try really hard to avoid Lemmy.world
Well, actually you can. The admins of lemmy.world are far more responsive to actual criticism and will deal with abusive moderators. There have been more than one that has been removed due to their actions. The admins of Startrek.website didn't care at all and listened to zero criticism or feedback.
TenForward was also created because of the moderators not the admins, a very large distinction that needs to be made. When TenForward was initially created, we were on perfectly good terms with the admins, even if we didn't agree with them. At no point in the creation of this community were the admins a consideration.
Yeah, we could've done much worse for admins. Lemmy.world is pretty good right now but I'm concerned about the centralization of power and the single point of failure. I would've preferred a medium sized instance but you can't win it all I suppose.
Maybe at some point the community can create a different community on a medium sized instance. I'm just concerned about potentially controversial decisions being made that have a huge impact on the community.
I’m just concerned about potentially controversial decisions being made that have a huge impact on the community.
TenForward is proof that with Lemmy the concern shouldn't be so severe. Risa is enormous and was for a while. But now it is effectively dead with no one posting on it. Why? Because controversial decisions of the community caused the community to go to another instance and set things up there instead.
I wouldn't worry too much. Star Trek is pretty aggressively about hope and freedom. Even if I were to become the most Romulan bastard around, it wouldn't change the community. They'd all leave and set up on another instance and should rightfully do so.
Fediverse be awesome, yo.
That scene made me laugh so damn hard. That's always exactly how I imagined they acted.
