"If you didn't want fascism you should have voted!"

I think the Democratic Party is more to blame for running a Status Quo candidate when there's so much dissatisfaction with the state of things. When people are angry, the guy who blows up the system is more appealing than the person trying to maintain it. You gotta actually promise to overhaul things, that's how Obama won.

Who took away our option to vote to make things better?

Oh yeah, the consumerist scumbags who kept voting against Bernie in the primaries.

If they're mad now, I'm happy. I would've been mad at either outcome, but now the people who took away the good option can be upset too.

Start running better candidates, guys! It's not that hard if you're not a greedy scumbag piece of shit or a useful idiot!

(it turns out, neo-liberals are greedy scumbag pieces of shit)

Who took away our option to vote to make things better?
The first past the post election system did.
If you want things to get better in elections, you need to get rid of primaries. Instead implement a voting scheme where you aren't punished for ranking your desires honestly.
In the current system, the only votes that matter are the ones for the two leading candidates. Any other vote is equivalent to not voting.

The economic system in the US guarantees fascism, the rules are made up and votes are don't matter.

I didn't vote because I'm not American. They should revolt that is the only answer.

I agree totally. All the upper-middle class socialists in this thread have no doubt been setting this in action.
Or they've been doing nothing but navel gazing on Lemmy.
- What gov database do you have access to that tells you the financial status of lemmy users in this thread
Votes do matter... Would've voted just a few more against Trump, we wouldn't be in this (I think at this point global) mess...
Should they matter more or should the "democratic" process be quite different (more deliberate), yeah...
At this point though, we need big protests, I agree. Also just to wake up all those (not entirely lost) MAGA idiots...
- Hubris is thinking a few liberal voters in america could abate a global trend toward fascism without fundamentally changing anything about our broken capitalist system.
  
  Right, the trend so far isn't very good, and I agree the (capitalistic) system needs a fundamental change, though electing the obvious (seemingly for half of USA not...) Auto/Idiocrat is definitely not helping...
  
  Democrats' inability to address what voters were actively demanding is why not enough people turned out for them.
  Even in political terms, snubbing the Students for Justice in Palestine at the convention and refusing to let them speak was possibly the worst campaign decision of the last decade.
  
  Yeah I know, it's still a ***ing big facepalm for me, to not show up in one of if not probably the most important election, "just because" the democrats don't follow a great agenda. As left-leaning as I am and as much as I disagree with (most) democrats, the alternative is, as we currently see sooo much worse.
  I wouldn't vote because I support what the democrats are doing, I just try to choose the lesser evil.
  I'm European, and my vote is basically always strategic, I never really vote for the party that I'm really agreeing with, just the party that I'm in least disagreement with. Yes I think the democratic system in the USA (if it's still alive) is flawed (as are basically all democracies to some degree), it's bad, sure, but rolling out the red carpet for Trump by not voting (for the democrats) is... sorry... just dumb.
  It's sad that people rather don't vote, and accept the fact that the states drift towards an autocratic system, than just vote for the lesser evil (or engage themselves politically).
  
  It’s sad that people rather don’t vote, and accept the fact that the states drift towards an autocratic system, than just vote for the lesser evil (or engage themselves politically).
  Maybe it's sad, sure, but it's far from unusual. In the US, average eligible voter turnout fluctuates between 50-65%. In 2020 it was 65.3% (the highest ever recorded), and in 2024 it was 63.5%, the second-highest. Eligible voters end up not voting for a bunch of reasons, but the biggest reason is usually because they (rightly) feel like the choice has little actual impact on their day-to-day life. Even if you're relying on the 'most important election of our lifetime' motivation (the same rhetoric that's been used for the last 5-6 elections at least), many of those people are white middle-lower-class adults - those people don't believe they'd be the ones targeted by mass deportations or political imprisonment anyway. Granted, that's a short-sided reason not to vote, but let's not act surprised by low-income americans having a bit of an optimism bias (since they are consistently the largest pool of eligible voters).
  You simply cannot expect every eligible voter to turnout for you if you aren't giving them compelling reasons to do so. But even in relative terms, the 2024 election was still only 1.7% behind the highest-ever turnout for a presidential election in our lifetime - american voters certainly did turn out, and many who abstained from voting were engaged. The problem is that they no longer believe the democrats actually represent their interests, and so went shopping elsewhere or didn't vote at all (or split their ticket). Blaming those voters without asking yourself why there were more of them this election is nothing more than political masturbation.
  And just a reminder that the democratic party does actually have members in its caucus that have a higher than 60% approval rating nationwide, but for some reason they chose not to run those candidates
  
  the same rhetoric that’s been used for the last 5-6 elections at least
  Nah, maybe a little bit for the last trump election where he dipped his toes into autocratic territory, now that he got support again (even House and Congress) he can go full autocratic. Everyone that's at least a little bit educated politically and economically shakes their head about Trump, and did so before the election too. It's not a rhetoric that was used before that much. Electing republicans was always a little bit correlated with stupidity but not like: Go full Trumpler/Hitler, full on conspiracy, "anti-establishment" (the opposite seems to be true, thinking about that there were never more billionaires in political power than ever before). The stupidity for a lot of americans seems to be at an all time high too.
  Nah I really don't understand why people were omitting this election, just because they were in slight disagreement with the democrats (over things, where trump is orders of magnitudes worse)...
  the biggest reason is usually because they (rightly) feel like the choice has little actual impact on their day-to-day life
  Yeah and now take a close look at what Trump was "able" to do in just 4 months. Lets sum it up: it's not a good outlook for the economy (and especially poor people) in the USA. And it does hurt globally too. A single vote may not have much impact, but it can prevent this shitty state the US is in currently ("if everyone thinks like that...")
  Blaming those voters without asking yourself why there were more of them this election is nothing more than political masturbation.
  Ah common that's bullshit, I mean I'm mostly blaming republican voters that were for the most part voting against their own interests... The system is absolutely flawed, but people should at least try to prevent the worst (which they seemingly didn't).
  And just a reminder that the democratic party does actually have members in its caucus that have a higher than 60% approval rating nationwide, but for some reason they chose not to run those candidates
  Yeah there absolutely better candidates, and I really hope, that progressives like AOC gain much more power and the democrats are able to turn left. But then, there's still the question if there's an election again that is not a total shallow joke, so that democrats (or maybe even other parties) get a realistic chance for power again.
  Seeing the downvotes here to something in my eyes obvious, really makes me want to block lemmy.ml. Are there really that much Trumpler-loving-Tankies around here? Such a contradiction: Hypercapitalism fueled autocracy, the only thing (I think) tankies and MAGAs agree with is probably autocracy.
  
  It’s not a rhetoric that was used before that much. Electing republicans was always a little bit correlated with stupidity but not like: Go full Trumpler/Hitler, full on conspiracy
  You must not be old enough to remember the 2008 election, then. People were accusing Obama of being the literal antichrist, and was among the first to prominently feature conservative conspiracy theorists on national news (Don was calling in to talk shows to accuse Obama of being a Kenyan Muslim and demanding his birth certificate, then his long-form).
  Maybe in hindsight it's hard to make a comparisons, but every election since then has represented the same choice between 'sane' democrats and 'crazy' conservatives. You can only have so many of those before they start to feel like the norm.
  
  You must not be old enough to remember the 2008 election, then. People were accusing Obama of being the literal antichrist
  Oh I was old enough, I didn't follow the election that time that closely, as IMO it wasn't that important as the last 3 (and I wasn't that political either) Though something like the Project 2025 were just not existing that time, and while Trump maybe always a crazy person, that all of this is that socially acceptable (conspiracies, lies across all dimensions) is a concerning trend (towards fascism, as Hitler etc. used similar rhetoric).
  Maybe in hindsight it’s hard to make a comparisons, but every election since then has represented the same choice between ‘sane’ democrats and ‘crazy’ conservatives.
  Right, as I said, I don't promote what the policy of the democrats is, I'm just concerned what the alternative looks like...
  
  Nah, maybe a little bit for the last trump election
  Lol, libs love rewriting history
- we wouldn’t be in this (I think at this point global) mess…
  We were in this mess before the election
  
  Not in at this level though...
  Right now it's not even clear if there is another meaningful election. And I don't think I have to mention what happened just in the last few months since the inauguration of Trump...
  This wouldn't have happened when Harris would've been elected, I'm sure of.
  
  Bullshit.
  
  Before the election:
  The U.S. was funding, arming, and providing unqualified political support for a genocide.
  Democrats had no significant plans to address climate change.
  The U.S. was deporting huge numbers of immigrants, using the same agencies and facilities that are in use now.
  Democrats had no significant plans to address wage stagnation or the cost of housing, healthcare, and education.
  
  Very compelling argument
  
  Likewise.

Start a revolution

Why do people keep smugly citing this as the third option when there are a million better options before outright rebellion?

As if any rights or liberties we've won as a working class have ever come from anything other than violent opposition and disruption.

Revolution is the only option for long-term gains, rather than short-term concessions. As long as the bourgeoisie controls the state, they will use it to wind back any concessions they give out temporarily.
- Sure, but you don't get to revolution without many smaller escalations
  Libs harp on that word because it sounds rightly ridiculous to an american, but say 'armed protest' and suddenly it sounds a lot more realistic.
  
  Revolution requires organizing, and that's indeed a long and drawn out process. However, armed protest implies disorganization and loose aims, not the direct goal of overthrowing and replacing the bourgeois state with a proletarian one.

All 3 points are wrong. 1 There is no status quo, they have demonstrably both gone further right. Which brings me to 2 2 There is only fascism and fascism-light. Genocide Joe also built the wall, deported massively more people:

Bombed civilians in Yemen and displaced half a million people there for his genocidal proxy.
And many mor scummy thing.
3 They will never have a revolution, only placate Trump and move even further to the right to win back some votes.
And people will take it, americans are pacified and harmless, some lame protests are not 'revolution'.
Gullible AF as shown by the massive upvotes you get from the many libs here.
They will all be hearded back into the status quo sytem by Bernie or AOC the new sheepdog puppy in training to prevent revolution or a valid 3rd party.

Sad that even a non-american as yourself, not confined to thinking inside the box can be this wrong.
The other side of the uniparty thinks like you and is refusing to admit their wrongs, how bad do you have to be to not be an alternative to fascists? All of them get what they deserve.

Mate, assuming youre an American, whatever you need to feel better about your inaction is up to you
Bottom line: once an Americans ability to vote is gone all your catchphrases mean nothing. The fascist is the one who will take that action.
American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected. That doesn't mean Biden was anything but an awful leader but Trump is worse. Way way worse. Everything he does both foreign and domestic was enabled by those who both voted for him and those who refused to vote against him.
- If Trump is walking the "way way worse" path on Palestine it's only because Biden laid the path down for him in the first place.
- I'm not american, and I don't 'need to feel better', I'm glad that country is destroying itself since they are all horrible, as I explained.
  American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected.
  You must be joking, there was nothing left for him to bomb in Palestine and he ruthlessly bombed Yemen, more than Trump did.
  I give facts, they are not catchphrases as you demeaningly call it.
  All you got is "Trump is worse".
  You should move there, you fit right in with the smug and sanctimonius libs shifting blame and vile insults at leftists for what they themselves caused.
  
  If you genuinely think things aren't worse under Trump whilst simultaneously claiming you speak facts then I don't know that you are capable of reason. Couple that with your apologia for excusing voting against fascism and its very obvious you're about as left wing as Thatcher wasn't.
  
  HOW are things worse in the middle east under trump than biden? What is trump doing that is worse than supplying arms for a genocidal carpet bombing campaign like biden was?
  
  They are worse for themselves, that's all, and all they care about.
  The entirety of the Dems program was "let us continue to be shitty and also ignore that little genocide.... or you get Trump and expensive eggs!"
  And again you are incapable of understanding voting for them is not "voting against fascism", since they both are and continuing the status quo BS it what got them in this position in the first place. I have zero sympathy for them.
  And you certainly should not have an opinion on me being left.
  What are you, some English guy voting for Kid Starver and larping as a leftist?
  Really, don't bother replying, no use in talking to obstinate people.
  
  Try and parse a bit of reality. By enabling fascism by voting for it or refusing to vote against it you make the situation worse for both those in Palestine and also remove your ability to vote out the person doing this.
  And here's you going on about eggs.
  
  Voting for a corporate Dem IS voting in favor of fascism.
  Corporate Dems know that the only path they ever have to power is if the alternative is Republican autocracy. They're too unpopular on their own to have any way of winning an election based on their personality or positions. They can only win by fear. Thus, they cannot actually dismantle fascism. They can't pass reforms stripping the presidency of emergency powers to prevent it from being abused. They can't launch a law enforcement crackdown to finally put MAGA in the ground. They need MAGA. They want MAGA. They need a giant monster standing behind them to terrify the populace into voting for them. That is the only way they can possibly win an election. In fact, they have every incentive to make that monster as big and as terrifying as possible.
  Voting for a centrist Dem guarantees eventual holocaust. The Fascists will just keep becoming more extreme and violent, even when the corporate Dems are in power. The occupants of the White House will alternate between Fascists and corporate Dems, moving further to the right each cycle. Eventually they'll start killing people by the millions. Centrist Dems are unable to prevent this. They need fascists in order to get in to power.
  
  you make the situation worse for both those in Palestine
  No, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it.
  also remove your ability to vote out the person doing this.
  Your whole complaint is that people didn't vote for the people doing this.
  
  don't bother with that person. Americans can't understand it, the whole country is corrupted and evil to its roots. And don't even bother trying to explain an american what anarchism is all about or they'll collapse on their own like this guy did
  
  American exceptionalsm is so freaking annoying, dealing with it first hand trying to get people to realize we're not actually the good guys and we aren't actually the best is exhausting.
  Seriously the majority of people here are ignorant to the world at large and brainwashed.
  
  And there it is, "if you dare question my genocide denial, you aren't capable of reason!"
  
  Worse for whom?
  Things haven't changed a bit for my indigenous neighbors. They are being fucked over just as hard now, as before...
  My black neighbors have noticed just as much now as before, cops still abusing their community and their still being ignored economically.
  So, worse for white people? Sure.
  
  Worse for non cis people, worse for women, worse for education, worse for immigrants, worse for people in countries being directly and indirectly threatened by your fascist president. Worse for people watching him dismantle all opposition and ultimately worse for anyone who thinks they're going to be able to protest any of this. The fact he hasn't made things worse for your neighbours is because he hasn't got around to it yet. Were less than 6 months in.
  
  Worse for non cis people
  How so, specifically, that wasn't happening prior?
  worse for women
  Same. How so, specifically?
  worse for education
  Public education, to put in the words of Lupe Fiasco:
  "Your child's future was the first to go with budget cuts If you think that hurts, then wait, here comes the uppercut The school was garbage in the first place, that's on the up and up"
  Brown people in the US have always gotten the shit end of the stick, with public education.
  worse for immigrants
  What if I told you that Biden was deporting people at a faster rate than Trump is?
  worse for people in countries being directly and indirectly threatened by your fascist president
  Like, which countries? Palestine was being genocided before Trump was elected. And we've been raping under developed nations for a long time. Frankly, a lot of those nations are getting a break now, with Trump's focus on turning the imperialism inwards.
  
  many of the most emblematic coup d'états were sponsored by dems in power. brazil in 64 and 2016, bay of pigs invasion in cuba in 61, south vietnam in 63, greece in 67, dominican republic in 63 and 65, argentina in 66, bolivia in 79, south korea in 61 and 79, honduras in 2009, paraguay in 2012...
  
  I've got zero interest in discussing anything with people so foolish they tie themselves in knots to absolve fascism and Trump. Its literally pointless.
  
  Who is absolving Trump of anything?
  
  You have zero interest because every time you try you make an ass of yourself and start defending genocide
  
  The reason it's not worse for my neighbors, is because they were already under attack by your beloved liberal republic, and have been for centuries.
  
  My what? Are you a child?
  I'm fully aware they've been under attack for a long time. I'm saying under fascism it'll get worse. Both for them and for everyone else.
  
  "Vote for genocide or we'll beat you up again"
  That's essentially what you're saying right now
  
  It seems like it's mostly getting worse for white, cishet people. Queer people were already under attack, and being lynched. We've been hammering on immigrants for like... 30 or so years now. etc etc.
  My what? Are you a child?
  Your beloved liberal republic here, the one that loves to genocide people, loves to be racist, loves to put dollars over humans, and loves to start wars to topple democratic societies abroad.
  
  So yes, you are. Got it.
  
  Better for all the people who were already being brutalized by the USA empire and are happy to see it collapse though.
  
  Dude, I'm doubting you are capable of reason. Compare what you wrote:-
  If you genuinely think things aren't worse under Trump
  What you are responding to.
  American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected. That doesn't mean Biden was anything but an awful leader but Trump is worse. Way way worse.
  
  Those were both me. What's your point?
  
  Copied the wrong reply. Anyway.
  Neither of you is saying Trump is better.
  
  No, you're wrong. Jusr twice.
  If you refuse to vote against a fascist you support the fascist. Because the fascist doesn't care if you endorse him. Refusing to stand up to him brings about the exact same result.
  
  And what does you being willing to engage in genocide denial to defend a fascist make you?
  
  I'm a different person. I was reading the thread noticing that you both think Trump is the worst president.
- American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected.
  No it hasn't, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it. In that sense, the situation is better under Trump because at least BlueMaga shitlibs like you are not denying their genocide anymore.
  
  There was also a ceasefire and prisoner exchange, and Trump immediately forcing Israel to accept it torpedoed the "we don't actually have any influence over them" excuses.

Vote to make things a billion times worse

Your daily reminder that blueMAGA liberals don't consider Palestinians human

(I'm also curious how they determined op is an American eligible voter in a swing state)

I guess the same way you assumed I am?
- I didn't, but I realise "no, U!" Is all you have, so you're going to cram it in regardless.
  
  So when you referred to my comment as 'blueMAGA liberals ' you weren't referring to what I said?
  
  I was.
  
  So you called me a bluemaga liberal but simultaneously you didn't assume I was am American voter? Lol, whatever.
  
  There's no requirement to be an American voter to be blueMAGA. A fact that it is so obvious that I can only conclude you're playing dumb on purpose.
  
  Blue is a colour associated with the democrat party of the USA. Maga is a cult associated with the republican party of the USA.
  Referring to non Americans in terms referencing US political parties is nonsensical. Are you an American? If so it seems you're one of those American Exceptionalism types who insists everything in the world must be viewed via the prism of the USA.
  
  Bluemaga cultists worship the dems
  They exist everywhere in the western empire
  
  Referring to non Americans in terms referencing US political parties is nonsensical.
  No it isn't. Another fact that is so obvious that I can only conclude you’re playing dumb on purpose.
  
  Lol, five.comments all claiming that voting against fascism is somehow interchangeable with denying genocide.
  I've been on protests supporting Palestine both before this latest war and now. I think Biden enabled the Israeli gvmt to commit genocide. Trump is still a much worse option for Palestine and for everyone else.
  Time to get that brain of yours out of its box and put it between your ears.
  "No it isn't. Another fact that is so obvious that I can only conclude you’re playing dumb on purpose."
  You're literally about two comments away from chanting 'USA! USA! USA!' at this point.
- Which Ukrainians?
  The oligarchs?
  The Banderites?
  The eastern & southern Ukrainians, who, after the Maidan coup, declared independence from an unelected government, and were subsequently terrorized by the Banderites for nearly a decade, with tacit and overt support from the Ukrainian and US governments?
  The men being pulled off the streets and pushed to the front lines against their will?
  
  Previously. Previously.
- We want to stop the war and protect them from the yank army kidnappers.
  You want them all to die for your evil cause. It is you who doesn't consider them human.
  
  You want them all to die for your evil cause.
  TBF, most Westerners are misinformed about why the US wanted this war, so I usually don’t accuse them of being aligned with those interests. They usually imagine Ukraine as Western corporate media want them to imagine it: as a peaceful, monocultural European liberal democracy which was suddenly invaded unprovoked by an imperialist autocrat bent on conquering all of Europe.
  
  I just assume they feign stupidity. Those who comment a lot, they clearly aren't dumb, they're very knowledgeable. They aren't average westerners.
- Well that's a completely incoherent non-sequitor, but that's also all BlueMAGA has left.

You supported a genocide.

Really? You're assuming of course that I'm am American citizen, which I'm not, or didn't attend numerous protests to support Palestinians in the country I do live in, which I did.
The whole world is not the USA.
- shut the fuck up you fucking weenie
  you have an opinion until you can be criticized for it then "oh I don't live there"
  pick a lane
  punk ass loser
- And what pry tell did your protests accomplish, Protests are easy for the ruling class to ignore if they so chose. Did your protest make it uncomfortable for them to exist, did you disrupt trafic, cram the government building past building code forcing some of them to be unable to get to their office, block cars from leaving the parking lot?
So did you.
- Lol. The absolute state of BlueMAGA; reduced to "no, u!"
  
  When there's no wiggle room to try to absolve themselves of allowing and abetting the circus horror show they worship to continue working as intended (because they need it to live comfortably knowing full well that others thousands of KMs away can't), all that's left is a simple "no u".
  Westoid chauvinists/jingoists, especially libs who are arguably the most depraved of them all, are fucking annoying to engage with knowing this fact.
  
  Seriously, nobody twists themselves into just incoherent and nonsense rhetorical knots as much as BlueMAGA libs. even the red variety are more coherent.
  
  red variety: "yes actually we are racist and actually hate your guts"
  blue: "yes but no but actually but maybe, perhaps, mayhaps, blue eyes, whataboutism, consider the alternative, juxtapose this to that, for instance, in short, in closing, blonde hair matters"
  
  Basically, but with a lot self-righteousness and left-punching.
  
  I mean, you randomly stated they supported a genocide. But yall are cool with letting the repubs win and getting one at home.
  Oh, right, we wont have one at home. This time its being outsourced.
  
  ????
  I assume you responded to the wrong post.
I wanted to not be genocided
- So do we, but apparently the USA has made genocide a bipartisan consensus.