Thoughts Around KBin's Current Status and the Importance of Community Migration Features
Thoughts Around KBin's Current Status and the Importance of Community Migration Features
So my understanding is that KBin.social is now gone from the internet for the indefinite future. Ernest, who meant well, simply could not keep up with the demands due to his personal life and the development issues that were cropping up all the time. Let me get ahead of any replies and say that it's perfectly reasonable to shut down a large instance if it's taking up your time and money or becoming a burden on your personal life. Personal health should always come before a bunch of random dudes/dudettes that happen to be on the internet. Additionally, it's a good reminder that developing software while also maintaining a large instance probably isn't a good idea and that you should probably make sure you're taking a reasonable amount of work off your plate.
But I can't help but feel like there's another story here regarding the potential risks of the fediverse: Admins need to be ready to migrate ownership to others who are willing to take on the financial or user account management burden. Additionally, there should be a larger focus on community migration features for more flexibility to sudden instance losses.
I managed a community that had partially migrated to Kbin after the great reddit exodus last year and managed to continue to admin said community up until a few months ago when Kbin's service became very very spotty. I understood Ernests' particular dilemma so I was willing to give it a month or two to figure out what actions I needed to take to migrate the community again, but enough time has passed now that I am no longer confident that Kbin will return to even a read-only, moderator only state. This means that whatever community I had there is now completely out of my control and the users might not know why posts have stopped entirely. Basically, I have to start from the ground up which might be OK but I'm not particularly keen to start it all over right now.
So this is basically a plea to the admins out there: If you are having trouble with management and need to stop, could you please give the community a vocal heads up so that whatever subcommunity happens to form on your site has some means of migrating? Additionally, software out there should have more policies for community migration, whether that's lemmy or mbin, as we never know when it might be necessary to migrate to a new domain under different ownership. Lastly, if there's an option to give ownership to others in the community, please consider it as it would really help the fediverse if admins were willing to migrate domain and databases to other users who are willing to carry the torch.
That's it from me for now, thanks for reading this minor rant. 🤙
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A shame about kbin. It's where I landed as well but eventually had to move to lemmy.world.
I wonder if there would be enough data on archive.org to rebuild your community? I guess not given users who moved might not have kepth the same usernames.
Just curious, why did you choose lemmy.world over mbin?
@Aatube well, not sure about what they're response would be.
However, the creator of Mbin, Melroy, recently offered Bryan Lunduke, a known transphobe, a place on his instance in case his original instance bans him for his views.
Offering to host a transphobe is not a good look...🤦♂️
Huh. That's... recent. TIL @Melroy, a core maintainer (mbin has this governance system created specifically to avoid the kbin scenario from reoccuring, so there's no true founder) of mbin, which has a great feature of integrating microblog into threads (kbin in fact had more features that still aren't implemented here since there were a lot of reliability issues to fix), uses Mastodon instead. Anyways, like I said, the good thing about mbin is that you can straight up reply to a microblog post and ask.
I have seen a few people with both Mbin and Mastodon accounts. From what I have seen so far, Mbin can post to Mastodon and see some Mastodon posts, but it is… rough. Link posts not sending the body out, for one. Making a Mastodon post from Mbin goes correctly without a title and displays like a microblog on Mbin and Mastodon, but on Lemmy it makes a whole new thread for that microblog with the first few words as title. Until Mbin integration with Mastodon improves (and Lemmy integration with Mastodon too, because Mbin federates out to Lemmy too) I can see getting yourself a separate Mastodon account to talk with the much higher number of people there as well.
if you can, please create an issue for this specific problem at https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/issues if one doesn't already exist or thumbs-up/add a comment to an existing one so it gets visibility. broad fediverse compatibility is one of our main project goals, but not all platforms conform to the AP spec (or it's not addressed by the spec) and instead do their own thing, so it sounds like we'll need to work out a common ground.
Part of what makes me nervous about issue creation is if I'll get asked for examples of the issue, because I don't want my GitHub linked back to my Fediverse account.
I really should just go make another GitHub account so I can do this worry-free!
ah, understandable. i'm a EE by day and all of the coding i contribute to Mbin is purely for fun with no bearing on real-life, so my github profile is expendable/only for Mbin. ;-)
How/where did you learn PHP? I've been thinking of learning to try to contribute to Mbin.
I also know very little about networking.
undergrad C/C++ background, PHP is a cakewalk by comparison :-)
@Aatube I wasn't replying to that post because I didn't want any more harassment from the transphobes and admins mentioned there.
I did already ask him and he ignored me.
https://social.beaware.live/@BeAware/112914020692638023
🤷♂️I can only do so much investigating before I have to say something publicly.
Well, replying could yield a different result. It's not uncommon for figures big enough to mute their mentions.
@Aatube 🤷♂️harassment is a good deterrent and I have 5x more followers than him...so just replying to me would be a good idea.😬
Melroy's deleted that reply now.
I did indeed, I revoked the request towards Lunduke. I'm gay myself. Why would you be against me?
I'm pro LGBT and pro trans.
That’s great, but unfortunately bigoted gay people exist. In the UK, there’s enough to form the advocacy group called LGB Alliance. There’s even people who only hate bi people.
@Aatube I fully understand, luckily I'm not judging anybody regardless of their religion, race, belief or sexualitiy. So I'm embracing LGBTQIA+. I personally know how hard it can be to be gay, so I I can also imagine how difficult it would be if you were trans or queer..
I also got a lot of hate on the street when I hold hands in the Netherlands. Meaning we are in general still far away from acceptance in society, yes even in the Netherlands. I have the feeling it goes actually more down hill in the recent years. Which hurts a lot to see and experience.
@Aatube great. I'm just seeing this because on Mastodon, for a user to get notified, you have to add their username in the body of the post.👍
Thanks for updating me.
TIL mentions are case-sensitive
Well that is certainly relevant news! And sad to see too.
So long for the kbin family of platforms then (seriously, harsh to say, but so long as this is representative, I reckon that spells the end of it on the fediverse).
@maegul @fediverse yeah...in interest of fairness, I did ask him for a comment on the situation before I went public with the information, but he completely ignored me so after 3 days I had to make a public statement on it.😔
Me asking him: https://social.beaware.live/@BeAware/112914020692638023
Me making it public: https://social.beaware.live/@BeAware/112922757724465742
I can only do so much "investigating" before making it known.
Very much appreciate that you did this (and this follow up too)!!
But lunduke is a fairly known entity by now I think. I recall many getting weird about him and his business-y linux persona shtick even before the transphobia stuff started. So while it's completely fair to give Melroy a chance, providing a helping hand on mastodon almost just speaks for itself.
And I'm not even saying that mbin necessarily should "die" because of this, just that it likely reflects an attitude that will not work well on the fedi over time, and probably justifiably so.
I did respond. And I revoked the request of lunduke after I discovered that he is transphobic. I'm part of the LGBT community myself. So I'm pro trans.
Thank you for clarifying!
Too bad @BeAware@social.beaware.live makes too quick judgments. The only reason I didn't respond directly is because I'm actually on holiday....
I revoked this after I indeed discovered more about Luneduke behavior. I'm actually gay myself!
So I'm actually pro LGBT, including trans. After all I'm literally part of that community.
creator of mbin. its just a fork of kbin and its not like hes made all the commits since.
@HubertManne he created the fork. So therefore, he's the creator and the one who holds the merging power.
no, we maintainers (~6 active out of 13 total) have full merge power and admin rights over the repo, all it takes is 1 other maintainer to approve a PR for it to be eligible to get merged into our main branch... C4 ftw https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/blob/main/C4.md.
@debounced Well, that's great! However, that still doesn't quell my concerns regarding Melroy's offer to the transphobe. He IS the creator, though it is good ya'll have a group, it still concerns me that someone so prominent with the project would associate themselves with such people.
I have many trans friends and I cannot, in good conscience, recommend the project until it's addressed.😬 😔
Again. I revoked the request of lunduke after I discovered that he is transphobic.
In fact, I'm gay myself. So I'm part of the LGBT community including supporting trans people.
yeah I guess its like ernest created kbin and that is something but this guy forked it as part of a multiperson run project. I feel like it should be like technical creator or something.
@HubertManne but if he has the merging powers, it doesn't matter because the buck stops with him on what's implemented.
wait so mbin is all down to one person controlling it? No one else can manage the version control? That just makes it the same as kbins boat then!
@HubertManne pretty sure that's how every project works in terms of merge requests...no? Even mastodon can only have merges approved by Eugen Rothko.🤷♂️
certainly not in companies. pull requests can be authorized by a set of rules which is usually some automated checks and review by X number of members of the group who owns it.
@HubertManne
Well...this is not a company. However, after reviewing the github. It does seem like there's at least one more who can approve merges
@fediverse
No. I gave others full merge rights. Look at my C4 document: https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/blob/main/C4.m
I don't want a single point of failure. I don't want to be the bottleneck of a community project like this. Hence any person can become owner if they contribute enough inline with the guidelines.
I don't think mbin existed at that time. For a long time I was on kbin on desktop and Artemis on Android. Artemis kinda evaporated, and eventually I settled on Voyager, which meant I needed a lemmy.world amount. I still used kbin on desktop but it became less and less reliable.
I wonder if there would be enough data on archive.org to rebuild your community?
you can probably find a mirror of the community on one of the big Lemmy instances