How should Hexbear federate?

I wanted to open up a post to discuss the two main methods of federation: allow-list and block-list. As well as see how the majority of users felt with regard to the methods.

Due to some of the issues raised with the method of vote counting this will be considered only a check of user sentiment, not a promise of what to do

I will pin two comments, one in favour of a block-list and one in favour of an allow-list approach to federation.

Before the domain issue we were using an allow-list, this means that any instance that wants to be linked to hexbear must reach out to us or be nominated by a user for addition to the allow-list.

The benefits of this is that we are not automatically linked with any instance that spins up. The downside is that we miss federation with any small lemmy instance as well as with any other activity-pub instance (mastodon, peertube, etc.)

Lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml both use a block-list approach and for what it's worth they have done well, the majority of reactionary instances already block us (lemmy.world, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ca, sopuli.xyz, slrpnk.net) and the pedo/porn/nazi instance are already on the hexbear block-list.

The biggest upside of a block-list approach is that new single person instances that get created will link up with us without any extra steps, and the biggest downside is that it will add an extra step for moderation (adding a new shitty instance to the block-list after they show their shit)

Within the following spoiler will be the hexbear allow-list and block-list.

Discussion may be had within comments, if you have specific instance additions/subtractions from the allow-list or block-list please comment underneath the respective pinned comment.

For example if you wish to add lemmy.ca to the block list comment under https://hexbear.net/comment/5951093

172 comments

Why the actual fuck are we even voting on shit that would never have been up for debate if this mistake never happened?
I do not know why you want to give the community every single opportunity to generate unhappiness that is just completely and totally fucking needless.
Worse still, changing to this method of voting completely prevents anyone except site admins from looking for people using multiple accounts to manipulate a vote.
Genuinely can't fucking believe this is even up for debate... Again. Why is it being relitigated? It was a settled issue and now it's going to make everyone against the result angry as fuck?
EDIT: Yeah I could word this less sweary but still.
- Because we haven't done a site wide check in about federation approaches since we started with an allow-list.
  
  Timing though Carcosa! Get the existing drama out of the way and let people have a few before starting a new one!
- Same.ien 100% same. The site tore itself apart a few months ago over internal conflict over post content in a wave of brutal struggle sessions. Going from that to even considering re-federation with a blocklist seems like an extremely poor choice. We can all look at the recent past, and the first attempt at federation, and know that if we have a blocklist it's going to lead to a series of rolling disasters that will further divide the site and erode trust. Let's just quietly delete this and if we're going to federate at all federate very carefully with a small number of vetted instances.
  
  I supported Block List originally and still do and just think this is a poor approach. I would have liked a month off from dramas once Hexbear is all fixed again. If there's an ongoing question about Federation it should be an annual consideration brought forwards at New Year. "New Year new Hexbear what do you want this year?" sort of thing.
  I actually think Block List is best for the site's health, it provides some growth sources and it provides more activity for those on Hexbear that want to roam. There are undoubtedly new users who will find leftism through it. But I still think seeding another drama on the back of a confusing "we're losing the domain" drama is just back to back stuff.
  
  I've been away for a couple of months since the whole slop/dunking crisis made me real feelsbadman.jpg and I'm really surprised to be coming back to this discussion. I'm surprised people want to federate at all after that, but I'm doubly surprised that folks want to throw the door open. It seems like that will quickly rip off all the bandages and undo any healing that might have happened while I was taking a break.
  
  There was more to that whole thing as it was connected to other ongoing fighting afterwards. There's an unspoken sectarian fight on the site that one side hadn't realised was occurring and members of the other side were being singled out, targeted and purged. I talked about it here a bit: https://hexbear.net/comment/5825163
  Awareness of this difference being a sectarian thing seems to have squashed it. The side that hadn't realised it was occurring stopped mistakenly playing into it and it kinda balanced out I think.
  
  Glad you linked that comment, I had missed it previously. You put into words my feeling on the situation very well there, better than I had managed to in thinking about it. Thanks.
  
  Ultimately it comes down to a single point of disagreement, do you believe American path to revolution should be treated like Palestine in that the minorities should fight back like it's a settler colony? Or do you believe it should be treated like traditional ML theory of uniting the proletariat and fighting back?
  I land on the traditional side of this and think that the other approach would lead to obliteration, but I don't want to fight people over it or purge people for disagreement on this point, at least not here anyway. In an actual party these two sides probably can't exist together because it fundamentally requires the party to go two completely different directions but here on Hexbear it shouldn't be a cause for purging.
  
  Okay that makes a lot of sense. I was shocked at the outright hatred being expressed by mods towards the users of comms they moderated and that tracks.
  
  Fuck me, I had no idea that was going on. I don't really frequent the megas because it takes too much of my attention span. Didn't realize I was missing out on an entire struggle session.
  
  Low-boil hidden one. Hidden to members of the megas too really. Even to members of the admin team.
- This whole thing is unwarranted. Things need to revert back to the pre-domain name kerfuffle status quo.
  This is reminding me of how various admins kept pushing for the mega portal even though most people thought it would suck. The mega portal was eventually pushed out under a trial run during the domain name kerfuffle, and it sucked exactly the way people thought it would. It's pretty obvious that some admin (not necessarily Carcosa since Carcosa is more like the PR rep of the admins) was overly attached to the idea and used the domain name kerfuffle as an opportunity to push out their pet project even though everyone else, including other admins I would imagine, thought the idea was complete ass. Pretty disingenuous.

172 comments