...and perhaps, none of us have a realistic baseline. I certainly don't have firsthand knowledge of every way to be marginalized!

However, I still think "privilege" when applied correctly is a useful construct. I need to mull this over more in my head to figure out how and when, though. Like, what is the approach that is actually gonna change hearts and minds (or sway organizations struggling with this stuff)?

Thanks for letting me ramble in your mentions.

@Nath @Zagorath

This dovetails with the "I didn't notice the sexism therefore it didn't happen" problem - he's probably not tuned into the difficulties people lower on the pecking order experience at all.

He has no realistic baseline.

It doesn't excuse his ignorance, but it *does* explain why, from a political standpoint, starting the conversation with privilege *rather than* starting with the challenges faced by other people might be a poor approach, because it engenders defensiveness.

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@Nath @Zagorath

And this is obviously BAD because it means any time you talk to a straight, able-bodied white man who hasn't actively unpacked all of this about privilege, he's immediately going to think about all the ways he's disadvantaged relative to his own baseline, which is, what? Tall, handsome, rich white men.

When you mention privilege, he feels attacked because he immediately thinks of all the ways in which he lacks it, not the ways he has it.

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@Nath @Zagorath

And so, when a white woman thinks about privilege, because she doesn't see her own race (since she is the societal "default") she only thinks about the ways men are given advantages over her.

Whereas the Black woman also sees the way that white women and men of all races are given advantages.

And a disabled, queer Black woman... you get the picture.

So "privileged relative to what?" is based entirely on the individual's experience and perspective 🙃

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@Nath @Zagorath

@Nath @Zagorath

Oh gosh, I think you just put your finger on something really important at the intersection of a few different parts of the conversation about privilege!

(Pardon me, I'm having a moment.)

There's that anecdote (I wish I had the source!) about how when a white woman looks in the mirror she sees a woman, but when a Black woman looks in the mirror, she sees a Black woman.

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@ajsadauskas @fediverse
...on the other hand, isekai-ing ten thousand German FOSS reply guys into the World of Shitposting and Discourse* would result in some entertaining fireworks, so who's to say?

* Oops I accidentally a Homestuck reference (and I don't even like Homestuck). Clearly the platform I spend too much time on isn't fedi or bsky - it's Tumblr.

@ajsadauskas @fediverse my understanding is that the models and design principles are completely different between AT and AP.

But even if technical and philosophical hurdles could be overcome, I think adding 2M Extremely Online users to fedi would be a wash; it seems like most people pick either fedi or bsky for cultural reasons and smooshing the two together would just make everyone unhappy.