Like what if I want help formulating counterarguments to liberal/conservative stuff that I see elsewhere, and/or I want to discuss leftist ideas/stances that feel to me like they're a bit weak and need shoring up, and/or I want to clarify/examine my own more problematic ideas?
I mean, I guess I could post to librehab, but I've already authored the most recent three posts there and I'm starting to feel like, you know, that guy.
So about the CW: this author is an Israeli neoreactionary, a "race realist", and a seeming Ashkenazi supremacist. I am not looking to downplay that, and I am posting this with some caution. (In particular, there is a racist barb in this article against Candace Owens and Kanye West.)
Having said that, they are also fairly knowledgeable about Jewish history, including Zionism, antisemitism, the Holocaust, etc. and as far as I can tell they are relatively intellectually honest about these things - certainly more intellectually honest than the Israeli goverment's propaganda vessels, or pro-Israel American politicians, etc. I'd be lying if I said I haven't learned anything from reading this guy's stuff.
In addition to the article linked above, they also wrote two follow-up posts:
Antisemitism as the Resting State of the Far Right
Wrapping things up on antisemitism
The last article, if you can look past the predictable communist-bashing stuff, includes a point that I think is fairly useful and important:
> There is a stupid belief common to both antisemites and the antisemitism industry, which is that America, and white countries in general, are always one step away from breaking out into antisemitism... In the 1930 Federal German election, the NSDAP won 107 out of 557 seats, so any German Jew under the impression that everything was hunky dory on the antisemitism front must have been on some pretty strong opium. More than that, though, there had been explicitly antisemitic parties, including ones that had antisemitism in their name, in the German parliament for 50 years. Hell, the German Conservative party officially included antisemitism in its electoral programme in 1892. The idea that one day ‘for no reason at all’ Germans became antisemitic and elected the Nazis has literally no basis in fact at all; it was the product of nearly a century of dedicated propaganda.
> This is the kind of stupidity that comes from seeing antisemitism as a ‘virus’ rather than an ideology. You could get a virus at any moment; you might get Covid tomorrow and be bedridden for literally minutes. Ideologies aren’t like that though. How likely is it that Libertarians will take over America three years from now? Not very, but they have had a party getting 2 or 3% in elections for decades and a whole nonprofit ecosystem promoting their beliefs. Do antisemites have that? So what are you even talking about?
Over the course of 5 days, La Repubblica reporter Francesca Borri, writing for Yedioth Ahronoth, met and spoke to Hamas's leader in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Sinwar. Sinwar stresses prisoner exchange is an important part of any agreement with Israel, claims he is not interested in more fighting, but 'it...
It's pretty interesting, and definitely useful for dispelling the common notion of him in the West as merely a crazy, violent, Jew-hating religious nutcase.
A lot of good stuff, but I'd say this is the money quote:
> What was [the occupation's] purpose? Raising killers? Have you watched the video where a soldier shoots at us as if we were bowling pins? And he laughs, laughs. They (the Jewish people) were people like Freud, Einstein, Kafka. Experts of maths and philosophy. Now they are experts of drones, of extrajudicial executions.
looks interesting. thanks
Thanks, this seems like exactly what I was looking for
This is really good, thanks
I have been semi-aware of the civil war and the attendant humanitarian crisis in Yemen for the last eight years or so, and I recall it being particularly bad in 2017 and 2018. However, I've never really understood what the actual contours of the conflict are. I don't know what the two opposing sides or ideologies are; in fact, I don't even know if there are just two. (I do know that the Houthis are one of the involved groups, but even there I don't really know what they're about, e.g. their vision and objectives; and the same goes for whomever they're fighting against.) I recall that a few years ago there was a lot of left discourse about how the (USA-supported) Saudi intervention in Yemen was bad, and I guess I'm willing to take other leftists' word on that, but I'd still like to understand why that intervention was bad.
I'm asking about this because I came across this post recently on Substack, in which the writer implies that the Saudi intervention in Yemen was done for good reasons and gets unfairly criticized. Now, that person is an odious Israeli racist, so I don't trust that their account of the situation in Yemen is particularly fair, but I do feel a bit stumped; I don't know much about Yemen, this guy seems to know more than I do, and I don't know what the counterargument is.
Is there a good article/explainer/blog that I could read about this?
If so, what did you think of it?
I'm curious about it, but I have too much other stuff I want to read first.
so this is it, right? We're, like, definitely in WW3 now?
been thinking about this a lot this morning.
I don't think the Nuremberg Trials really support your point here.
Admittedly I am not an expert about the Nuremberg trials, but based on what I know about them, they were not about simple revenge. They were mostly motivated by the following:
- appropriately prosecuting a bunch of German government officials for crimes against humanity that they clearly had committed
- establishing a precedent for a new system of international criminal law, since the events of the 1940s had proved it was clearly necessary to have such a system going forward
- to a lesser extent, educating the remaining German population and bringing some degree of shame on the remnants of German nationalism
- (I guess this last one could be possibly construed as 'revenge', but I wouldn't agree with that; I think there are important differences)
If you want an example of a court trial that was largely about revenge, I would encourage you to instead refer to the kidnapping and trial of Adolph Eichmann. However I don't think this example really helps your case either, because there actually were some problematic aspects to this trial, and it arguably did go too far, at least in the sense that (as Hannah Arendt argued) it was a gratuitous show trial that Israel didn't even have a right to conduct, given that Eichmann hadn't committed any crimes in Israel/Palestine. Really the Israeli government should have turned him over to the Hague.
settler-colonial worldview of statecraft
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? I have a feeling that I probably subconsciously believe some of the concepts to which you are referring.
For instance, would you consider this to be an example of a "settler-colonial worldview of statecraft"?
What view of statecraft do you support as an alternative?
Indeed, by the time we get to today, it would turn out that having ancestors who fled from the same persecution is much less meaningful a similarity than what the people alive today actually make of that history.
Fair point
I was raised reform Jewish and am half Jewish by family history. I have ancestors who were victims of the pogroms in the Russian pale of settlement – specifically, all four of my great-grandparents on my father’s side, along with their parents (my great-great-grandparents). When they were children their families fled and eventually resettled in the USA.
There is another place that they could have gone instead: Palestine. At that time it was still part of the Ottoman Empire, and some of the displaced Jews of that time did elect to go to Palestine. As it happens, my ancestors chose the US, but they could have gone to Palestine if they’d wanted to.
The fashionable posture on the left to take towards Israeli Jews recently has basically been a combination of glibness and vitriolic hatred, often reaching the point of wishing death upon them (examples: 1 2). I don’t know… I just can’t really feel good about stuff like that. The fact that my family ended up in the US and not Palestine is really just a quirk of fate. I don’t think that my ancestors were, like, morally better people for choosing the US over Ottoman-era Palestine. (And given the recent uptick in “Turtle Island” discourse, it seems like a fair number of leftists believe my ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed to resettle in the US either.)
I think that Zionism (with the possible exception of cultural Zionism) has generally been a noxious idea throughout its history. I don’t think the state of Israel should continue to exist as it is currently constituted, and I think the near-ubiquitous racism among Israelis is shameful. But I also don't think that every Jewish person who moved to Palestine in the last 150 years was a bad person for doing that, and I’m not prepared to circle-jerk over the deaths of people that I have a fair amount in common with historically.
Am I missing something? Have I been hoodwinked by Zionist propaganda?
American's have to care for things to get better
This is probably far-fetched, but I'd like to think that Crooks was the first republican to actually be intellectually honest about Trump's connections to Jeffrey Epstein, and decided to take "kill your local pedophile" to its logical conclusion
this guy disagrees: https://x.com/prem_thakker/status/1812366460955562225
ST. PAUL, MN—Wondering how anyone could read the articles in such publications and not recognize them as “total establishment propaganda,” local man Mark Furlong, a longtime reader of Lib-Slaves.info, told reporters Monday he was sick and tired of the obvious mainstream biases on news sites like Wid...
https://www.jta.org/archive/ben-gurion-reveals-suggestion-of-north-vietnams-communist-leader https://www.jta.org/2014/11/02/culture/from-the-archive-israels-friend-in-hanoi https://richardpollock.substack.com/p/two-unlikely-national-liberation (pro-Israel blog)
This seems kind of disappointing.
I too am an anti-AIPAC progressive. I beg us to please stop whining and learn from this shit
Yeah I've been having similar thoughts.
2014-2020 or so was a period of significant ideological change & realignment in the US in a number of ways, but now things have kind of reached a new equilibrium, so the current ideological terrain is probably what we're going to have for a while. I think this is mostly because the internet & social media reached maximum penetration around 2014, and the 2014-2020 period was just the US's ideological terrain adjusting to that step change.
(Admittedly, I also might be biased because 2014-2020 is also basically the period when I was 18-25 years old, so of course it seemed to me like a lot of things were in flux)
I watched the video, and honestly that was a pretty mild example compared to previous things that Israelis have said about Hitler.
I will never forget this incident from 2019 in which Giora Radler, a Rabbi at a military prep academy in the occupied West Bank, was caught on a secret recording saying the following:
The Holocaust for real is not about the killing of Jews – that’s not the Holocaust. All of these excuses claiming that it was based on ideology or that it was systematic, this is ridiculous. Because it was based on ideology, to a certain extent, makes it more moral than if people murdered people for no reason. Humanism, all the secular culture about us believing in the human, that’s the Holocaust. The Holocaust, for real, is being pluralist, believing in “I believe in the human”. That’s what’s called a Holocaust. The Lord (blessed be his name) is already shouting for many years that the [Jewish] exile is over, but people don’t listen to him, and that is their disease, a disease which needs to be cured by the Holocaust.
He also said separately:
Hitler is the most righteous person. Of course he is right in every word he utters. In his ideology he is right. There is a male world which fights, which deals with honor and the brotherhood of soldiers. And there is the soft, ethical feminine world [which speaks of] ‘turning the other cheek’. Nazis believe that the Jews carry on this heritage, trying, in our words, to spoil the whole of humanity, and that’s why they are the real enemy. Now, he [Hitler] is 100% correct, aside from the fact that he was on the wrong side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwNnyRJnnIQ
https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/israeli-military-praising/
My parents have had a terrible marriage for basically as long as I can remember. I have been anticipating their divorce on some level since I was about 11 (I'm now in my late 20s), and I don't know why they don't just pull the plug. In fact, I don't even know why they got married in the first place; they don't enjoy each other's company, they don't have congruent ideas or tastes on basically anything, they're basically incompatible in every way.
I think they both would have been better off if they had split up early, never gotten married and never had children together. They should have married different people, or just not gotten married at all.
The obvious implication of this, of course, is that I shouldn't have been born. This does cause me some existential discomfort. Thoughts occur to me like, "Why do I care so much about the future? Why do I pay so much attention to politics? What's the point of advocating for socialism or trying to work towards a better future? I don't have kids, I can't have kids\*, I don't think I should have kids, and I don't even think my parents should have had me. In a better timeline, I wouldn't even be here anyway."
\*(I had a vasectomy a few years ago)
I would like to feel a bit more assured about all of this. What do you think?
lmfao I didn’t even know that half of it
In their perception, Britain turned against the Zionists around 1939 or so (White paper) and sided with the Arabs in opposing a Jewish state after that. So they mean “Independence” as independence from Britain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
"we'll never be able to accomplish fascism in the US because our base of suburban Fox News watchers are stupid and incurious about political theory" is a pretty amusing premise
Free Palestine
(Bum-Bum-Bum)
From the river to the sea
THE SEA
THE SEA
ba-da-ba-da-ba
Thanks everyone for the responses. I've learned a lot, and I'm sorry for any offense I caused.
Thank you for this response, and for your other ones in this thread as well.
This passage in particular really gave me some needed perspective:
There are no "uncontacted tribes", everyone has been in touch with their neighbors the whole time, for as long as there have been humans. Every part of the world, except Antarctica and a very small number of islands, has been inhabited by humans a very long time, with Polynesia being one of the last places humans arrived at a few thousand years ago. Humans have been in NA for at least 30,000 years, Australia for at least 40k but probably longer, in Europe for at least 50k. Even the famous North Sentinelese have had more and less contact with their neighbors over prior centuries. Their current closed borders are a modern policy decision made by a modern people choosing how to interact with other people in the modern world.
(Although I didn't mention them directly, the Sentinelese definitely were one of the things I had lingering in my mind when I posted my OP, so I'm glad you said something about them)
I didn't know that, but that is interesting
this was clarifying, thanks
I have seen some leftists stand by this statement as entirely true, and I have also seen some leftists dismiss this idea as cope on the part of liberal Zionists who dislike Netanyahu/Likud (and who would like to delegitimize both Likud and Hamas together).
The following are some relevant articles that support this idea:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/
What is clear is that Israel has allowed Qatar to fund Hamas on numerous occasions without much interference. However, whether Israel has ever actually funded Hamas specifically with Israeli money is not as well-established (although many of the people who support the general “Israel propped up Hamas” idea definitely imply that this has happened). So as a corollary question, how important of a difference is this?
I currently live with my parents. If I moved to a part of the country with lower cost of living (which I could feasibly do since I have a remote job) I could definitely afford to rent an apartment or even buy a condo by myself, but I know from previous experience that I don’t enjoy living alone and would probably get depressed.
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/2017860
> Just to clarify, I don't believe any of the following arguments and I'm fairly sure they're all bullshit, but I'd like to bolster my understanding of how to refute them the next time I see them. > > These are all paraphrased or "steelmanned" (as opposed to strawmanned) versions of arguments I've encountered elsewhere on the internet. > > 1. Israel does not unilaterally blockade the Gaza strip all by themselves; Egypt also has a border with Gaza and also participates in the blockade, and yet pro-Palestinians never seem to allocate any of the blame to Egypt, they always put it entirely on Israel. This is unfair and possibly antisemitic. > 2. In 1948, the Zionists allowed Arabs who didn't fight against them to stay in their homes and become citizens of Israel. This population of Arabs became known as the "48-Arabs", and they and their descendants are still citizens of Israel today. The fact that the Zionists accepted these people into their new state proves that the Zionists were not aiming to ethnically cleanse all Arabs and that Israel is not a racist state, or at least not a foundationally racist one. If the Arab Palestinian militants of 1948 had just done what the 48-Arabs had done instead of starting a war, they and their descendants would also be full citizens of Israel today. > 3. Western pro-Palestinian advocates make a critical error when they assume that Palestinians are primarily concerned with "civil rights". The main thing that motivates Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza (as opposed to Arab Muslim citizens of Green Line ‘48 Israel) is not their lack of "civil rights" (which are a largely Western notion, after all), it's that they resent Israel's existence as a non-Muslim-dominated society in what they see as "Muslim lands". They do not desire a secular democratic state with equal civil rights for all, they desire a Muslim controlled, sharia law state in which they can dominate Jews as a persecuted minority of second class citizens (dhimmi, infidels) or just drive Jews out entirely at their whim. Maybe in 1948 the Arab population of Palestine would have been satisfied with a secular, democratic state, but unfortunately extremist Islam has become a much more prevalent ideology since then and has changed the political equation. > 4. During the period of the British Mandate of Palestine (roughly 1910s to 1940s), Jewish immigrants improved the living standards of the region and initiated a lot of new economic activity. As a result, many Arab Muslims from neighboring regions like Egypt, Syria, and Jordan immigrated to the Mandate of Palestine because they were attracted by the new economic opportunities, and today's Palestinians in Gaza & the West Bank are largely descended from these Mandate-era Arab immigrants. Given that their ancestors came to Palestine at about the same time that Zionist Jews did (and in some cases later), their claims of having a superior right to the land of Palestine over Israeli Jews don't make sense. (example of this argument can be found here and here) > 5. Often pro-Palestinian advocates say that "Western countries should have accepted Jewish refugees in the 20th century instead of pressuring them to go to Palestine." This is true on a surface level, indeed a lot of things would have gone better if powerful Western countries had done that. But alas, they didn't, and that wasn't something that the Jews of the time had control over either way. Therefore the Jews who settled in Palestine at that time can't really be blamed for what they did, they were just looking out for themselves in the absence of any benevolent world power who would take them in. > 6. Pro-Palestinians misunderstand the Haavara agreement and overstate its importance. The fact that the Haavara agreement occurred does not prove that Zionists supported Nazism, or vice versa. If the Haavara agreement "proves" anything, it is simply that for a few years the Zionists had just enough political leverage with the Nazis & British to help out some fraction of German Jews as their situation in Germany was becoming more precarious, and the Zionists took the opportunity to do this while they could. This does not at all prove that the Zionists "supported the Holocaust/allowed it to happen" or anything like that, and the fact that some pro-Palestinians interpret it that way is really rather disappointing.
Police have said they are investigating the defacing of an Amy Winehouse statue in north London after a Star of David necklace was covered with a Palestine flag.