dragontamer @ dragontamer @lemmy.world

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Today was 50F (10C) and I'm estimating closer to 3mi/kw-hr.

Or in other words, warmer weather is close to +25% more range and efficiency compared to last week's cold weather test.

Note that this number is very preliminary (ie: reliant upon Toyota's battery measurements) and I'm currently recharging my car with the Kill-a-watt to verify my initial estimates. I've also got a work meeting tomorrow morning, but I'll try to write down the results of today's warmer weather test and report back to you.

Alternatively, if I forget to write down the Kill-a-watt results tomorrow morning, I'll just repeat the test again on Wednesday or something. It should be warm weather all this week.

Wait wait wait. You followed my posts to a different topic on a different community? OMFG that's hilarious.

I'm glad that I'm living in your head rent-free.

I know somethig that will piss you off.

Wow. And you call me arrogant.

You haven’t run fuel tests. That was the whole point of the argument.

Toyota claims 48mpg. I claim 53mpg. My test has different results than Toyota's claims. The entire basis of you (and the other guy's) posts is mistaken from the beginning. And now you add bullshit numbers from unlisted sources despite two Prius owners in this topic telling you our statistics. And yet, I'm the arrogant and biased one. That's.... interesting.

Do you understand your position in this matter? I'm the one with the car. I can literally run the complete test when I want. And finally, I've shared my initial test results of 53mpg on a much smaller scale (mostly because its now 50F and I'm now unable to do cold weather tests. And the weatherman says I won't have a near-freezing day for another week or two). Furthermore, it would take a substantial amount (ie: 200 miles of driving) to get a reasonable test done... assuming we want something like ~4 gallons averaged out on the test to help mitigate any errors.

But if you don't like the initial numbers I've given you (53mpg), that's not a fault of mine or methodology or whatever. I'm simply showing you my best estimate of reality here. And since YOU admit you don't own this car, I'm not sure what the fuck you could possibly contribute to the discussion (nor the other guy for that matter).

1200+ words across 6 seperate posts according to MS Word, though I admit I'm not copy/pasting very carefully.

Look man, under no uncertain terms I've stated the following:

1. I've lost trust and faith that you and I could have a reasonable discussion.
2. I'm willing to insult you directly to make the point#1 crystal clear.

I'm not sure where you think you can bring this discussion forward from this spot, or what is going on in your brain to think that writing additional walls of text to me is a productive use of your time. And I'm honestly not sure what I can say that is a productive use of my time. And this is what I want, because again, point#1, I've lost faith that you and I could possibly hold a reasonable discussion on this matter at the moment.

Try again in the next topic or next time we talk or something.

Oh yes.

But a wire's resistance is purely ohmic (or damn near a pure resistance, very little inductance or capacitance to discuss).

So seeing a voltage sag of 120V (original) to 118V across the 11 Amps my charger pulls means we can calculate the resistance to be 0.2Ohms.

The rest of the 118V to the charger and the car is the usable power. After all, the current is constant (11Amps).

Power = Voltage * Current.

With 2V * 11Amps being wire waste (22W in the wires in my home), and roughly 1298W delivered to the actual charger

Additional losses are clearly evident (winter, battery heater, air conditioner etc. etc.) later. But the 22W of wire-heat waste / 1320W of power drawn from my power meter (where my electric bill is calculated) is the 1.5ish% loss of this element.

So the 1.5W is literally the loss in my homes wires, before accounting for the charger itself heating up.

It sounds like you know all this but just want to clarify and double check.

$4.50 in electricity, or $3.63 in gasoline.

Which is a bit surprising to me. All the pro-EV people were making it sound like EVs were way cheaper...

EDIT: Today it is 50F in my area and the Electric costs have dropped down significantly. I'm estimating about $3.20 in electricity costs when the temperature is 50F.

100km in 0C is $4.50 in electricity

100km in 10C is $3.20 in electricity. Holy shit, it's a huge difference.

And this guy in this thread says his Prius gets 45mpg to 63mpg, depending on conditions: https://lemmy.world/comment/13866193

Oh wait, my numbers say 53mpg. American gallons and American miles.

Now unless you have done a test yourself, bugger the fuck off. I'm not interested in Internet rumors, I'm interested in the Truth. I don't know how the fuck your numbers are so far away from reality but that's your problem.

The fact remains that I have hard numbers and have run the tests. You haven't.

You want them to take it back. Do so.e research, and prove them wrong. Otherwise, stop shouting.

BTW: Seriously, you seem naive to me so let me give you a serious protip.

If someone thinks you are biased on the internet, and you owe them nothing (not like a close friend or a family or something), you STOP TALKING WITH THEM BECAUSE ITS A WASTE OF TIME. And I've found that shouting, and direct insults, is the fastest way to make it clear that I'm ending the discussion.

Again: don't waste your time trying to prove yourself against baseless accusations on internet. Its not worth the hassle. If you find yourself doing that, you are the one who will get stressed out in the long term.

So I reject your advice and instead replace it with the exact opposite. Get angry. Shout, end the discussion. Then move on with your life. The discussion has been blown up, so its easier to move on. Don't lol "do research" on behalf of other people who don't give two shits about you and drag on the unnecessary discussion for days. They never were going to believe you anyway, because they thought you were biased from the start.

You know what would solve all of this?

I have an alternative plan. How about YOU run a 200 mile test? Go rent a Prius or borrow one from a friend. Drive it 200 miles in the 30F winter cold and tell me how many gallons were used.

I'll wait. A day, a week, a month, a year. Go put your actions where your mouth is.

Oh, you won't do it? What about the other guy? Uh huh. You expect me to do it?

Well there's the rub, ain't it? I guess I just accept that I'm biased then.

He has rightfully stated that the data you based your whole post on is likely wrong.

With what evidence? Please, I seem to have missed it.

Yes. But you know who owes me something? The other guy owes me to take back his baseless bias accusations.

Come back in a day, week, month or year. It won't be taken back.

You are issuing challenges to the wrong guy. I have nothing more to give you or prove to anyone here. (Well, I'll do a gasoline test eventually because I truly am curious. But it has to wait until I'm personally got the time for it).

it doesnt say much about the peraon carrying out the tests if they freak out the moment they are challenged on their results

Why should I give a shit about that? I'm not like a professional journalist with a reputation to uphold. Lol.

People who didn’t intend or want to ruin your day but did anyway because pointing out minor imperfections in your argument makes you mad?

You enjoy this and continue to post massive walls of text proving you are enjoying this.

An honest person doesn't continue to post here. An honest person would seek to apologize or make amends (if they posted).

A sane person would have called the mods on me and/or blocked me by now. Your actions though, to continue posting?

Yeah, gotcha.

Putting my edit at the top.

Yes. Apologies for that. I'm thinking plenty of things on this subject.

But rest assured I'm mad and I'm proud to display my anger on this discussion. I can see you are an honest and reasonable outsider so it's different than the other guy.

I made it clear that to do the test they're asking for is four fucking hours of test at a minimum.

And then they come back and call me fucking biased. Okay you fucking asshole. You run the test. Don't complain to me.

The fucking gasoline test is going to take a long time, it's going to force me off of EV mode for literally days and I've actually got busy things this week (wedding, work, etc. etc). I have no time to do a substantial gasoline test anytime soon.

You may absolutely have planned these tests perfectly, and the other person may be wrong. But if they are, then prove it

The other asshole hasn't tested jack shit and is just bullshitting from his keyboard. I owe him, and you, nothing.

I've offered my test data on the internet. I don't have anything else to offer.

As I said before and I'll say it again: if he wants to spend hours answering this question, and if I get a free stab to call him biased in the new topic he makes, then yes, I'll change my tune. But we all know he's just trolling me.

What, you think I have the test data you want or something? That these fuel test results magic themselves out of the air? Someone actually has to take the time and do this test.

Now if you address their claim then this whole matter is put to bed. But by all means, carry on insulting them

Lulz. I owe you and him nothing. I did the tests in the top of the page and I stand by my tests. I don't owe additional tests (let alone fucking hours of work) to anyone else.

Do you think the temperature stays still? The temperature in my area is back up to 50F today, which if I started the gasoline test it would have negated the results. This shit changes per fuel type and and per temperature.

All they said was they thought you might be biased, and you exploded

Yup. Because it's not honest. It's clear the discussion is worthless at that point.

If they can't even hold the pretense of an honest discussion, none of the words after will matter. So might as well get this over with and make it clear that I intend to end the discussion unless they back down from the bias accusations.

Protip: if the other guy in a discussion thinks you are biased, it's a waste of time to engage in honest discussion. It doesn't matter if they are a MAGA conspiracy theorist or a fanboy or anything. The discussion goes nowhere and I'm confident it's a waste of time.

And it's a waste of time, I need to make it clear in no uncertain terms that I'm ending the discussion ASAP.

If you see my point about bias then I'm happy with the words I've selected. It's made it clear what I'm mad about. Second tip: if someone is insulting you and making you mad, it's okay to be mad on the internet and show your emotions. We don't have to be robots.

Now tell me, am I actually wrong in any of this?

Note that winter-blend fuel has 10% or less energy in it. Summer-blend fuel has the most energy. And then E15 has less energy, depending on the current market of Ethanol vs Gasoline, you'll get a little bit more or less energy out per gallon of gasoline.

The variance is expected. No two gallons of gasoline is exactly the same, there's many blends in the USA and the blends change season-to-season, location-to-location, and even as the laws shift (0% Ethanol decades ago, 10% typically today, and a smooth blend up and down from there depending on what the gas stations decide).

I'm just trying to point out that you made an irrelevant comment. No need to get fussy about it. Maybe think a bit before posting next time, lol.

Not all factoids are relevant to a discussion. Especially the things that are only fractions of a percent difference.

genuinely I’m sorry at how cross that makes you

which is probably why I’m enjoying my car so much more than you seem to be.

Yup. As I said before and I'll say again. Fuck you. You are a fucking child and I'm happy to have called you out on this.

Grow the fuck up. Don't pretend to issue apologies when you clearly have no intention on following through. You can't even get through your apology post before deciding to attack again.

I've dealt with your kind before and I'll continue to call you out on it.

But don't worry. You didn't fail any expectations of mine. I never expected you to pass this simple test.

Come back when you actually have evidence to share and more than just insults.

The /c/technology discussion also brought up many examples of nighttime charge / time of use electric plans.

Depending on your country or other locations, you might have substantial savings for night time off peak savings.

I can drop from 17.1c to 12c night time / off-peak charging for example. But my on peak / daytime charge skyrockets to 28c.

Okay, so you want me to remove 0.25 miles from my 530 mile tank?

And you think that meaningfully changes the calculations... why? But sure, its a 529.75 mile gas tank (1/4th a mile out of my way between my work and house), for a difference of 0.05% less efficiency on the gasoline engine.

Any other effects you want me to throw on here? Or are you splitting hairs? But I think ~30% losses from the advertised ranges in the 30F / -1C temperatures for EVs is the main problem here that people probably should know about. And honestly, I'm not sure if 0.05% losses due to trips to the gas station are... relevant.

I've ignored the wire-loss (1.5% losses) in my house btw for the above calculations. But I have the ability to measure the 120V to 118V loss thanks to Kill-a-Watt. I bring this up because my coworker was getting 8V of loss (aka: 6% losses) when he was charging his Tesla. So wire losses might be substantial and the reader should be aware of how to actually measure wire losses.

NP, thanks for responding and clarifying.

I'm guessing you live somewhere in the territory of Quebec or Manitoba then? Google seems to suggest that your numbers are realistic for a couple of provinces/territories with lots of spare electricity.