Is there a leftist case for US balkanization or state secession?
anarcho_blinkenist [none/use name] @ anarcho_blinkenist @hexbear.net Posts 0Comments 440Joined 11 mo. ago
anarcho_blinkenist [none/use name] @ anarcho_blinkenist @hexbear.net
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The global south is already getting breathing room and will continue to by China's influence and ability to finance development usurping the IMF and World bank and breaking the limbs of US sanction capabilities. Especially with Russia and China allied more because Russia has no such compunctions of "non-intervention" while China is also helping train military and police as announced in the China-Africa summit.
Also there are way too many variables to say that the US "collapsing" would be an 'unalloyed good' for the world because what the hell does that collapse look like and into whose hands are regions consolidated under? It would certainly not remain a local event either; both to neighboring countries as well as all of the foreign military bases and navy contingents will still be active. and there are also nuclear bombs which would likely fall into the hands of whatever warlords or groups, which again "fully dissolved and collapsed" in such an idealist phrase with no concept of what that would look like, how that would happen, what the arrangement of forces would be, etc. tells us nothing. 'unalloyed good' is a drastic overstatement from zero information for such a world-shaking event as that would be. It also just writes off the US' internal colonies and their fates in a very eco-fascist-adjacent kind of way.
China's plan is much more thoughtful and shrewd for the global south to de-imperialize, and is without haphazard idealist concepts and showing itself to be successful and sustainable. And how the global north's working class prepares and navigates and dictates the subsequent and inevitable ensuing revolutionary moments as capitalism runs into catastrophic crisis due to not being able to expand, and contracting heavily due to expansion of Chinese capital, irreconcilably for the west multi-polarizing the world and global south is its own question --- which should have the actual communists already be organized in ways to do everything they can to not have it fall into whatever fascistic fallout world you're envisioning, but instead successful socialist revolutions including de-colonial socialist revolutions where it applies.
you gotta smoke first, even just a little, before starting drinking at all. if you do it the other way around you're in for a bad time. it also helps drink less if you do it this way ime.
hops are a member of the cannabaceae (hemp) family. Might be why flavor wise too, it's why really hoppy beers like a strong IPA sometimes will smell kinda dank
both of these parties are so bad at politicking. not only the dems running attack ads actively platforming 3rd party candidates; but trump also in that event saying "I like her because she steals votes for the democrats" if he just thought that but didn't say it and instead actually lobbed a few softballs for Stein like "I like her; She's not as good as me pause for cultist cheers but Stein is pretty good on the ukraine issue, she wants the war to end like we want the war to end but the democrats want more and more blood" or some shit he would be leveraging that fact that she takes votes from democrats and actually helping her do that to his benefit--- but instead none of these morons can think a single level above their most base impulses and desires and also they should all be fired out of a cannon aimed at the sun.
the Joy Reich wasn't testing well enough in the media ratings and polling or what?
because of the democrat's entrenched interests with arms dealers, tech monopolies, neocolonial hedge funds and asset firms, and billionaires like Soros and Buffet and their companies, big banks (Citigroup hand-picked Obama's cabinet and influenced his Fed choice of one of their executives who also oversaw Israel's central bank; him bailing the banks out was not an anomoly), etc. they are structurally incapable of reorienting to the left to capture any of the (growing and increasingly impoverished) working and lumpen voters on the left, so have to fight over the (ever shrinking and rightward-moving under crisis) bourgeois and petty bourgeois voterbase with the Republicans. Who would vote for their wallets (tax cuts deregulation etc) before caring about any of the surface level social issues the democrats pretend to care about (and pretend less and less)
It is their downfall. It is why we need to vote and agitate for and uplift the PSL (and even help Greens etc. who want the duopoly broken too and can be useful) and agitate to furthur rupture these intractable contradictions between the democrats' actual base and their interests and platform. The breakthrough is in the moribundity and redundancy of the democrat party compared to the republicans which is exposed by by starving them of the working class margins they need if they ever want power again and force them into untenable positions. Either the ruling class floats a progressive "labor" reformist party like the greens or another and breaks the democrats in half with half joining republicans outright and half flooding the reformist party in hedge-betting (alienating the reformists' left wing into socialist ranks); or they don't float a reformist party and coalition with the republicans like they seem to be doing and the left only grows exponentially because nobody in the broad working masses even had illusions about the republicans in the first place and parties like the PSL will have very little resistance to growing and rising by that point and risks for the ruling class allowing a dual power scenario to grow and take root. Either way this will all force an inward-facing and chaotic reorientation in the bourgeois politicians who have clearly forgotten how to play politics, in the face of a rising left, which only helps the victims of imperialism abroad and creates fertile ground for socialist growth in countless ways.
Impossible, my colleague and good friend across the aisle told me it was all we had to do
heh heh try bringing me on tour with ya
The suspect, identified as Vem MillerNot a real name
Short for Vemhinkular Mailmslaughller
good job ramirez, you made something even more violently racist and despicable than all of the worst fascist caricatures on 4chan. I hope you are haunted to your dying days and beyond-if-there-be by the untold tens-to-hundreds thousands whose mass murder you spent so much time and effort with your artistic skillset to help normalize and facilitate with this Der Sturmer level cartoon.
it's a scheme by
Big Windskibidi rotom
GAMEFREAK INVENTED A TOILET POKEMON AND WE GOT ROBBED
I bet half the people in here were liberals and believed the media narratives before they were radicalized and have forgotten. Thankfully there were people in their lives who radicalized them who didn't have these kinds of rigid anti-social frameworks regarding tactics in mass politics and agitation/education. I bet half the people in hexbear and socialist orgs in general in the US voted for Democrats Obama-Clinton even after they'd begun heinous destruction of Libya and Syria and all the slavery and ethnic cleansings. I bet many voted against Trump for Clinton after Obama started with Saudi and others to committing the Yemen genocide and bombing of weddings and hospitals etc. because they also bought into "lesser evilism" or otherwise believed what the media told them, before their political development changed their perspectives; so also by this logic "cowardly little hearts dumb fucking crackers etc. etc. etc. barbara pit never forgive etc.etc." Why would anyone be convinced by this attitude?
There is and has been and will be defections happening en masse from the democrats --- since 2016 even, and exponentially now, as much as there has been any change from the status quo toward a further increase of 'immediately en masse announcing unconditional support and attacking defectors'. And these defectors from the Democrats weren't spurred by people on the left abusing them and saying they deserve death and we'll never forgive them etc. Not a single one. IN FACT MANY ARE SPURRED THE OPPOSITE AND LEAVE THE DEMOCRATS BECAUSE OF THE DERANGED SHITLIB ABUSE OF CRITICS so you're not helping by doing the same exact thing as the hardcore democrats just from another angle. Communists are able to be right because of their ability, with historical and dialectical materialist conceptions of history, economics, and class, to have coherent, incisive, structural critiques on systems and mass movements in their class representation; with which to drive and agitate along existing sharpening contradictions to create ruptures and breakthroughs and realignments in class society for the benefit of and/or for the political education of the working class; not because they can be the best at being spiteful or mean toward random liberal voters in a hegemonic liberal environment over not having already developed internationalist class consciousness good enough or media/propaganda awareness and criticality good enough, and by being driven to act in ineffective, destructive, or self-destructive ways by ignorant fear and shallow charlatanry by their politicians, media, and people around them like everyone is set up to do and driven to do from day 1.
Many of the relatively politically conscious democrat voters don't even deny the atrocities and certainly aren't cheering it; they just get duped into media narratives that Trump is so much worse on this as well as everything else and Trump is Hitler and etc. etc. and don't realize how actively complicit, and compliciltly feckless, the Democrats are with all of these same terrible things; and are scared into helping Democrats as the structure is built to make them do as even many communists including in hexbear were duped into before as well. A lot of Democrat voters don't even know much about realities beyond what the media tells them about, it's just project 2025 and various whitewashes. Many don't know the full truth of the border camp situation being just as bad or worse than under Trump until they are taught and showed that Biden deregulated the camps and allowed for and advertised with state money the private subcontracting of the concentration camps for private profit; while issuing executive orders to shut down the border entirely like Trump tried to do who was himself blocked by the courts because it was too extreme. Which is another point of agitation in the list of increasingly sharp and increasingly obvious contradictions between Democratic party's stated goals and what the media states about their goals and purposes vs what they actually do, to continue railing against Democrats for and explaining to working class voters why starving them of margins will break the duopoly because of the Democrats' structural inability to reorient to the left; wedging them apart into support for 3rd parties and radical organizing, which is happening and has been happening and will increase with every political actor who keeps perspective to do so.
"Never forgive" what does that even mean? Are you going to car bomb random people who have harris/walz stickers? Never try to radicalize anyone ever again if they voted Democrat? Beat people up for believing what their media told them about lesser evilism/Dems being the least bad option? Just give up? Or continue agitating and highlighting these contradictions, and in ways that aren't unhinged and anti-social such that it'd even make other communists in real life organizing uncomfortable and doubtful of your political effectiveness if some of these comments were said toward random liberals of which you were probably one just a few years ago.
Many of the people who are duped into it aren't even happy about what the Democrats do and even hate the Democrats and are ripe for agitation and education to continue in effectiveness. They're just believing the narratives of the corporate owned media machine and status-quo-hegemonizing content algorithms about "lesser evilism." Which is the point of attack to convince people otherwise, which you will never do with this "never forgive them throw them in the nazi pit US is doomed and nobody will ever change their political opinion" in these kinds of threads. They need to be taught and shown to realize they need to challenge the actual structures instead of just facilitating things becoming this way through being manipulated into "politics is avoiding maximal perceived harm with votes for who the media says is less evil" And if the Dems do lose, then you will see an upswell of politically active liberals too as happened with the first Trump win, which also will need education and onboarding and splitting away from opportunist or petty-bourgeois trends; by active communists who aren't spitting on and threatening them because they might have voted for Democrats and making communists look (and be) terrible.
Like "not forgive them" what does that even mean? This is a counter-productive and insular anti-social focus getting this mad at random voters buying into the HEGEMONIC LIBERAL NARRATIVES EVERYONE IS DROWNING IN ALL THE TIME FROM BIRTH, EVEN US, AND ARE EVEN UNCONSCIOUSLY ALGORITHMICALLY FUNNELED INTO REINFORCING, rather than broadening your focus to actually undermine and change it --- understanding that and picking your battles to be most effective in organizing mass politics to the ends of socialism and anti-imperialism by fomenting splits along critical lines to wedge misled people out of hollow faith in the duopoly which we've seen happening and happening more and more for the past 8 years and will continue to --- but by the actions of those with more sense and perspective than the people in this thread and threads like it---imagine Claudia De La Cruz saying some of the wild and vile shit in these threads while she's campaigning lmao; would never happen because she has perspective and political acumen from study and experience and is trying to build socialism rather than abuse and spite liberals for no purpose other than to pettily see them suffer for shit a lot of them straight up don't even understand fully. Work all of this into the wider structural critiques highlighting and exposing the contradictions in the Democratic party's stated goals and what the media says about their goals and purposes vs what they actually do, stand for, who finances them and who they work for, etc. with actual class analysis and materialist conception of the mass movements of society as they are in current reality; and continue organizing for and agitating along those contradictions to foment splits and defections further in the Democrat party into 3rd parties, without making the 3rd parties seem positively unhinged like some of these comments would do by association.
Add it as another essential and undeniable point to beat the drum against Democrat dead-endism and that not only is "lesser evil" counter-productive in that it makes society gradually more tolerant and compliant with increasing evil over time --- but that has been the way of things for so long now the Democrats are effectively already equal evil; while uplifting the alternatives to give people, including those masses already holding their nose the past multiple elections and eager for an off-ramp, an actual platform they see to jump off onto. Join the PSL, agitate and educate among your friends and family and community for PSL (or Greens if you want). Draw independent coalition with these left 3rd parties where the interests align (Greens want to break the duopoly as much as the communists; or if they don't, force them to show themselves opportunists afraid of power and so move their bases to the communists); and further drive the points that the Democrats must be starved of their margins in order to disrupt the duopoly because the duopoly framework benefits the Democrats by keeping a "more (openly) evil" opponent to fear-monger while not offering anything different and ratcheting everything to the right.
Every single time? So I guess just sit on your hands and don't bother agitating or educating or organizing because all of them will always be this way and never change. /s
Most USAmericans on Hexbear were libs who were voting for Obama and even against-Trump Clinton's campaigns after they destroyed Syria and Libya and kicked off huge ethnic cleansings and mass terror. I wouldn't doubt you would be saying ", you are scum and you deserve nothing but scorn and derision" to yourself years ago if you are USAmerican. The genocide of Yemenis has been for a decade and many people here still voted democrat for Obama, and Clinton against Trump. Thankfully you and others had people and communities around you without these anti-social and reactionary conceptions of mass-politics and so didn't abuse you and threaten to throw you into a nazi pit for believing the liberal narratives that are LITERALLY OMNIPRESENT IN ALL SOCIETY AND MEDIA AND DISCOURSE FOR EVERYONE FROM THE DAY THEY ARE BORN; so you were able to be radicalized and educated how you were wrong. A shit ton of the politically conscious democrat voters are disgusted by the Democrats too but just buy all of the dead end status-quo narratives fed to them by the hegemonic media and discourses. So those narratives and conceptions are what is to be attacked. These attitudes are unhinged and counterproductive. Agitate and educate and organize.
I mean one of MLK's most known writings has it in the title. and he was there because Birmingham, AL was one of the places with some of the sharpest civil rights struggles and campaigns and is usually talked about in US schools' US history classes when they get to the civil rights era. So I'd say it's pretty known.
bless your heart
REMEMBER: DEFEATISM IS COUNTERREVOLUTIONARY
Reform UK aren't even fascist, they are the same bog standard racist conservatives of a decade ago who did a neoliberal rebranding. Calling nigel farage an omen of fascism is not only incongruent with the reality of their movement and what fascism seriously is, but is also panic-mongering and doom-saying over nothing. He and his have already had positions of power. This "omen of fascism" thing is much more reasonable to say about France's party of Le Pen whose party was literally created by SS members and Holocaust deniers. And even they exist in a political and social landscape larger than them right now that needs to be taken into material account when speaking of the rising of fascists.
"The left needs to get better at organizing" we are the left. collectively we are the 'better at organizing.' So we need. Where are things jammed up, and how to separate them? "better organizing" is phrase-mongering detached from material reality. Organize what? speak in specifics and do them. I said better in other comments here.
Nobody is doomed unless people keep telling themselves and each other they're doomed and so do nothing. Drag whatever socialist parties and orgs there are, even in coalition with reformists if they will allow you to march under your banners and retain freedom of propaganda and criticism, because they share the same interest (for now); into throwing themselves at the contradictions between the left wing and labour. You need to split the masses off from the dead end of labour into radical organizing or at least swelling the greens ranks (as petty bourgeois will be more wont to do) and then putting a fire under the greens to compel them to fight for power (which they will be afraid to do) and show in the last analysis all of these parties are feckless and opportunist.
People need to be directly shown as well as told why they are wrong, and why we are right. And that happens in this case by forcing labour with every leverage possible into untenable positions, and propagandizing that they can't manage to do what needs done, and doing so on every front -- in and with any unions and critical labor, in and outside their meetings and conferences and conventions and campaign events, on college campuses, canvassing in communities they rely on, in votes, running candidates against them to if not win expose them, in protests against them, etc. and setting lines loudly for labour, lines everyone needs crossed but you know they can't cross, to show the masses they are a dead end. It's already happening in the US for the past 8 years with the Democrats over, well, a lot of things but most recently Palestine has been a big one causing mass defections. Communist and socialist organizing and defections from dead end neoliberal parties is only growing.
Show the masses who still ride labour why labour will never be able to fulfill the will of the conscious workers by agitating openly under your banners against the things you know labour can't do due to their interest but which the poor working masses want and need; in coalition with other left parties and reformist parties if necessary while maintaining freedom of propaganda and criticism. Look at everything as a whole, where the masses are and their class representation, and where they are locked up on what issues, and formulate a line of attack based on the current reality and state of thing now --- not as they have been or might be, but as they currently are in living reality. How can you foment a separation of masses where they are stuck, and mobilize masses who are not stuck but lost in how to advocate what they want and need. And these things feed into each other as more on every side see you doing this under our banners.
Nobody is "out-organized" most of these chuds aren't organized at all. Did you see the right wing riots in the UK? A bunch of drunk out of shape hooligans wheeling flaming single-family plastic bins toward police, eating shit, then scattering? The guy who dancing in front of riot pigs got hit in the head and then nuts by his own guys' bricks? These are your fascists right now. Reform UK aren't even fascist they're standard rightist conservatives; nigel farage was already in power before. There is nothing to be defeatist about; and defeatism does nothing but help the reaction.
The fascists are more organized in places like Germany but there is also an actual militant left in Germany, including underground people whose names are barely known who had a leader recently put in prison for organizing beatdowns of right wing leaders that stifled a lot of their willingness to show their faces for a while. These are dialectical relationships that both inevitably struggle with each other and rise as contradictions sharpen.
It has always been 'scary.' It will never not be 'scary' to be revolutionary and challenge established powers. I guarantee you it becomes much more scary if we pretend to ourselves and try to convince others that doom is right around the corner and already happening and so paving the way for that to actually come true. Defeatism is counter-revolutionary. Read Lenin, including his writings and pamphlets on strategy and tactics during the revolution, and don't concede yourself to panic-mongering. The point at which your opponents are right-now-stronger is not a doom but is a point of conscious retreat and consolidation to attack the points where they are weak. And to discern this requires objective looks at reality as it is now, not vaguely possible futures to overwhelm oneself with, or dead pasts to be swamped in. We don't live in 1924 we live in 2024. We are making history every day.
The left doesn't gain members by complaining that "the fascists are too strong and it's scary" (particularly when it's not even true), the left gains members by being active and present, and masses hitherto complacent or deflated seeing us communists being incisive in critique and decisive in action; seeing the left at the front, moving and pushing against the weakest junctures of capitalism and reaction and rupturing them to expose un-ignorable realities and bringing more people into recognizing we are right; while crushing or deflecting the sharpest points thrust against us and against those poor and oppressed who not only deserve better morally, but politically are also inherently the most revolutionary body necessary to mobilize. But that only happens when their confidence is gained that they can stick their necks out because we've been doing it, because they face more risk than anyone.
Ask yourself and look carefully and critically with an eye to reality as it is now. Where are the working left masses? Stuck in dead end parlimentarism in the labour party? then our job is foment a split in the labour party by loudly and constantly, at every point we can meet them and the masses they have bound in their dead-end politics --- along their meetings and campaigns and conferences and canvassing and campus talks etc., exposing and explaining in propaganda the intractable contradictions which render labour incapable of furthering the will of the workers or meeting the challenges as they are needed to be met. This has been happening in the US with the Democrats and will continue to. Forming temporary coalitions with other smaller left-bourgeois reformist parties to do so if we have to; while maintaining independence of criticism and propaganda and acting under an openly communist banner, to rupture the biggest contradictions and bring more to our side by seeing we are right, and then move onto the next point of contradiction which is keeping the working masses in mire.
flinstones dinosaur voice "it's a living"
There have been many advocacies of separations in the context of decolonization and landback. Struggles for Native Americans to take ownership of their land in many constants and many points in their resistance fighting and struggles throughout the entire settling period, and into more modernly as well pushing at least along treaty lines. And there have been multiple movements and phases in the Black liberation struggle that have seem plans to secede in a Black nation. The earliest plans saw this Black United States being formed in the South where slavery and the black population was densest. There have been other plans and attempts to formulate and realize Black nationalist countries within the current borders of the contiguous US since there were more migrations and movements of Black populations elsewhere in the US; as well as other movements which sought a more unitary multinational decolonization.
This really comes down to a lot of practical material realities more than an idealist "what we would want." How the organized forces of populations, of socialists and reaction, of state and federal forces, etc. are arrayed; geography relevant to these forces and their centers of population and operation, what landscapes are rendered uninhabitable due to climate change when these kinds of questions arise as practical issues, basic infrastructure and logistic concerns, etc. Native Americans would probably have a simpler construct to turn into material practical realities due to already having various reservation centers, but these are kept small, dependent, isolated, fragmented, and occupied, and are also proportionally a pretty small percentage of the population compared to forces potentially arrayed against them if it were just them trying to do this.
So it really matters on what communities have been and are more organized. If there are Latino communities organized seriously for communist revolution in the Southwest for instance, and have access to habitable land, routes, food and water supplies, fuel, etc. many nearer Native American groups could align forces with them. But these are all such far off questions as to be pointless fantasies as silly as the right wingers right now to think about in this way. It is much more practical to think on the lines of organizing ones own community, building socialism and rupturing the political contradictions which keep masses separated from revolutionary politics including in 'parliamentary' politics as broad masses still believe in it (such as breaking the democrats' duopoly and causing an upswell in socialist ranks); as well as basic furtherances of specific de-colonial, anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist points and pressures such as honoring treaties, fighting against gentrification and ghettoization, basic health and infrastructure repairs in poor communities, expropriation of vacant housing, organizing prisoners and working prison abolition, pushing divestment from arms manufacturers and military in communities and in colleges (and pushing the military recruiters out of high schools --- fucking psychotic country); agitating against military enlistments and deployments and direct action against militarism and its material capabilities; etc. These kinds of things.
It is much more serious and practical and practicable to be thinking and working along these lines and in years see where it has led rather than making some 'early case for balkanization'. For many reasons. It is in the present our work is done, contesting with the material living reality as it is. In general, also, Balkanization is more of a historical event and possible outcome of irreconcilable ruptures in society to be accounted for and adapted to and reckoned with more than it is something to be legitimately sought after and built towards from day 1. Especially if you don't already have supreme reigns of power a separation or balkanization is much more of just an advent of uncontained chaos and incomprehensible many-fronted civil war scenario than it is remotely a goal.