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"If you didn't want fascism you should have voted!"
"If you didn't want fascism you should have voted!"
920 comments
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I keep saying this: if Democrats want me to vote for them, they need to run better candidates that represent my interests.
Why does 'falling in line' always have to be a one-way street? It's always the progressives' fault, never the centrists or neoliberals.
That's by design, because progressives actually want to reduce the disparity in wealth. The American 'left' is filled of greedy, entitled consumerists just like the right. It's why they want to squabble over the culture war while ignoring the class war.
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You don't seem to understand democracy IMO. If you want the Democrats to have better candidates then work to get them elected in primaries. If you don't think the primary candidates are good enough, find someone to run in them or run yourself.
If you sit on the sidelines until the last stage of the process and just bitch about the results of the process, you are just part of the problem.
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Entryism doesn't work, the DNC colluded to kick even Bernie out, and he was a compromise.
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I did, actually. The Clinton campaign still closed polls favoring Bernie, and the moderates opposing Biden dropped out and rallied around him while the progressives opposing Bernie remained, splitting the vote and favoring Biden. DNC shenanigans will always favor moderates.
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Defeatism at its finest. With that attitude Bernie wouldn't even hold a seat or have gotten as close as he did.
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It isn't defeatism, it's a recognition of failed strategy. Revolution is necessary.
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Sure. And how do you imagine that is going to happen? Get real.
Revolution happens by taking over the system, organizing, bringing people together. Selling the ideas of the movement.
How do you imagine it? A small armed group of insurrectionists by bitter leftists that refuse to do the actual work of democracy. Democracy is people organizing from the bottom not accepting the system and sitting on the sidelines waiting for a socialist to be running for president.
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It happens through working class organization, building support, protesting, and creating an organized movement, like what PSL is doing, and what other revolutionary groups have done throughout history in places like Russia, Cuba, China, etc.
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Yeah Russia and China are great examples. Cuba you can blame on the capitalist interfere but if you think anyone wants to work towards the goal of being the Soviet Union or Communist China then you are living in a fantasy.
I agree with the first part though, since it's the same as what I said. But those organized movements are not moving towards an armed revolution as a realistic end goal.
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The large majority of the population of post-Soviet states regret the dissolution of Socialism. Meanwhile, over 90% of Chinese citizens approve of their government, and are increadingly happy with the direction the country is heading in:
So no, this isn't fantasy. I've actually done the effort to dig into these systems critically, rather than just accept the standard Red Scare narrative.
Secondly, PSL is a revolutionary party, it outlines that on their party program:
While reforms must be fought for, and can be won, they are under constant attack by the ruling class. Capitalism itself cannot be reformed. Its supreme law and driving force is the maximization of profit. The only force capable of putting an end to this criminal system is the organized working class. Capitalism cannot be voted out of powerâit will take a revolution. The capitalist class will stop at nothing to prevent or overturn reforms by repressing, misdirecting or quelling any form of popular rebellion. Without a complete uprooting of the system that causes all the problems workers and oppressed peoples face, exploitation and oppression will still exist. The capitalist state will continue to rule.
Would it kill you to do the barest research on anything you talk about?
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Oh I have done the research and you are living in a propaganda fantasy if you think Soviet Russia or Communist China are good, tankie. Peace and love.
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Seems like the people who had it hate that Socialism is gone, and the ones who have it, love it. These make sense, given the massive benefits to the working class that come with Socialism.
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Oh itâs so simple! I just need to raise a few hundred million dollars and run myself! Why didnât I think of that?!
/s
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lol. How do you think the people who run do it?!!! Yes they raise money. But you don't have to start at running for president either. Start local. Find your local elections and support the most progressive candidates in the primary. Those are just locals, just like you. They raise money from donations. And yes you could be one of them.
People act like the Democratic party isn't just people. The leadership are mostly people who started locally and worked their way up. If more progressive people ran and more were involved it making sure they got elected then the Democratic party would be forced to move to the left.
Yes money corrupts the system... that is why we fight, not an excuse not to.
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How do you think the people who run do it?!!!
With the support of party insiders and billionaire funders
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Tell me about Kamala Harris' primary performance.
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This is an absurd comment made in bad faith IMO. And it intentionally ignores the reality of the situation where she was selected as the candidate.
It's also the exception. And this is all excuses to not do the real work of democracy and instead live in some purist revolutionary fantasy.
Yes the system is rigged, yes the wealthy are putting their thumb on the scale, THAT is why we fight harder and not an excuse to not fight. Which let's be honest the vast majority of you armchair pretend revolutionaries do... While the real grassroots leftists and anarchists are out doing the work of fighting for a more egalitarian society.
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This is an absurd comment made in bad faith IMO.
I really want to know where BlueMAGA shitlibs got the idea that any argument against them is inherently "bad faith", because you all seem obsessed with the idea.
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Your making too much sense. Your gonna upset someone.
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The Right votes in every election, every time. They vote in the primaries, the general elections,, and any special elections.
If you don't vote, don't be surprised when they keep winning.
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Except I vote every time and I still feel like I lose every time regardless of who wins because I don't actually support the people I vote for.
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Even Obama abandoned his promise to codify Roe V Wade immediately despite having a super majority his first 6 months in office.
Biden complained about Trump putting kids in camps during his first term. Only to not close said camps upon taking power - in fact he used those very same camps MORE than Trump.
Biden called himself the greenest president for his energy investment despite approving more drilling and selling more protected land to oil companies than any other president in history (though current Trump is looking to best that).
You feel like you lose because you do. These people do not care about us.
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Except for Obama, I have never been excited by anyone I've ever voted for. I still vote every time, because that's the only way any progress gets made.
And if you think no progress has been made, look at all the things Trump is trying to get rid of.
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The amount of progress that was made has never, in my entire 40+ years of existence, been enough. And it will never be enough because Democrats lose power every couple years because they're not an organized political party and don't bother doing things that will ensure people's lives are substantively affected by it.
Then the Republicans win and undo all the progress, and Democrats get to whine about how they can't stop it because they're not in the majority, unlike how the Republicans get their way when they're in the minority.
I'm not gonna stop voting, though, because each election, no matter who wins, shows how awful this country really is and how fucked we are.
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It's only going to get worse if people decide that voting doesn't matter.
Remember, both sides are the same is music to the GOPs ears.
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Itâs only going to get worse
if people decide that voting doesnât matterFTFY
And both sides arenât the same. Republicans are clearly way better at winning elections and implementing their platform.
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Gay Marriage.
Obamacare
The Americans With Disabilities Act.
Change for good is possible.
"Both sides are the same" only helps the GOP.
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First-past-the-post voting helps the GOP. That's why they are passing legislation to protect it on states they control.
So why are blue states still using it?
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Meanwhile Republicans have a 136 page blueprint ready to go when they take office to undo all of that. And when one steps out of line they take them behind the woodshed to keep the party in lock step.
I never said they were the same. I said Republicans are wayyyy better at getting their shit done.
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You're right. Both sides aren't the same. One side are Nazis. The other are Nazi collaborators.
They're objectively different, but that ain't saying much.
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I voted for Claudia Delacruz. As long as there is someone on the ballot that represents my views better than the democrats, I will vote for them. I voted some greens, I voted some democrats, I voted some independents. That is the extent of the voting I will do. Voting left every single time.
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The GOP loves Progressive 3rd Parties. Anything to drain off support from candidates who might actually win.
Back in the day, Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln when Lincoln didn't promise to end slavery.
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Your state should pass electoral reform and get rid of First-past-the-post voting so republicans can't do that then!
How the solution became "vote for my person even if they don't represent you" and not "hey this voting system is broken and republicans are exploiting it. Lets fix it." Is beyond all reason.
I'm not even a smart person, and i can see the solution. What is your state's excuse?
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How the solution became "vote for my person even if they don't represent you" and not "hey this voting system is broken and republicans are exploiting it. Lets fix it." Is beyond all reason.
When you realize Democrats are just blue MAGA it makes more sense. They've become entirely "any vote (or lack of vote) that isn't blue is wrong and you're a piece of shit," despite their candidates mirroring early 2000 Republicans.
It'd be hilarious how unprincipled Democrats are if they werent the only option next to fascists
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Too bad. I'm not voting for your people. I'll vote for the party that represents my interests, which is how this is supposed to work
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Make sides less relevant and policy more important by replacing First-past-the-post voting in your state.
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That's not going to happen before the next election.
Focus on what is in front of us right now.
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Every election is "not the right time," to demand a better life for the people. Interesting how that works.
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There is literally no way to change the election system right now. Check with your local board of elections if you think I'm lying.
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We've been focusing on the next election for decades at this point. At some point you need to recognize the insanity of doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
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If you forced every non-voter to vote, plenty of them would vote Republican
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920 comments