10mo ago

Chinese cars are pouring into Mexico — and the U.S. is worried - Autoblog

www.autoblog.com

World News @lemmy.ml

schizoidman @lemmy.ml

10mo ago

Chinese cars are pouring into Mexico — and the U.S. is worried - Autoblog

www.autoblog.com /2024/06/15/chinese-cars-are-pouring-into-mexico-and-the-u-s-is-worried/

Automotive Industry @discuss.tchncs.de

schizoidman @lemmy.ml

10mo ago

Chinese cars are pouring into Mexico — and the U.S. is worried - Autoblog

www.autoblog.com /2024/06/15/chinese-cars-are-pouring-into-mexico-and-the-u-s-is-worried/

119 comments

undermining regional carmakers
I think the word they're looking for is in fact "outcompeting."
Yutaro-Katori-with-butterfly-meme: Is this capitalism?
- Outcompeting by having a nation subsidize the cost. Until local manufacturers go out of business because they can't compete. Then China owns the entire industry she jacks to the price.
  It's like no one has been paying attention.
  
  It's weird that this has to be explained to Americans - this is how much of Big Tech got to where they are, except they call it "disruption".
  BTW this shows perfectly that free markets are not a be-all-end-all thing. It's a tool, and if it produces outcomes that you don't like, you can adjust it for better outcomes. The hypocrisy here is not that they pretend to worship the market then cry foul when China enters it on their terms, but that they do adjust it for their benefit all the time, and only pretend to worship it when people ask for their fair share.
  
  Local manufacturers
  You mean Ford, GM, and Chrysler who make useless pieces of garbage and also outsource production to Mexico?
  Who also got bailed out by the federal government for going bankrupt back in 2009?
  
  I mean the US is also doing that. It's not a subsidies issue; it's the fact that Chinese companies are using subsidies to actually make things while US companies are just pocketing them.
  
  Ah, I see. So it's cool when we do it (fossil fuel and ag subsidies, the auto industry bailout in 2008, etc.) but not when they do it.
  Got it.
  
  Lmao there's a guy who usually posts a long response to these "subsidies" claims bullshit, but I think they got into a pissing match with a mod in the comments and got banned lmao.
  Jist of it is: China's subsidies are negligible compared to the US, and what they've actually done is created a competitive domestic market with a large number of players. Unless you think Chinese people are all puppets, even if China (as a country) owns the industry it would not prevent internal competition that drives down prices. Moreover, China does not offer per-unit subsidies on export. In fact, Chinese EVs exported to Europe are something like 40% more expensive than domestically for the same model.
  
  The ol' Wal-Marteroo
  
  Tesla has been subsidized by years. The difference is china delivers and in America an asshole get rich.

- That doesn't exist anywhere...and I frankly don't think it ever will.
  EDIT What's with the downvotes? Does anyone want to refute this?
  
  Logically the refutation is kind of easy. Your prediction hinges on two things. A predicate that technology will never get better or cheaper.
  Both of those things happen all the time as such, the refutation is simple.
  Points to our entire technological history
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull
  Fwiw 100,000 yuan is currently roughly US$13,800
  
  BYD and CATL have announced that battery prices will be halved again by next year.
  They're really ramping up and it will continue.
  
  You provide no proof of the facts you state, therefore it’s just as easy for me to say you’re wrong as it is to believe you. 🤷🏼‍♂️
  
  Downvotes are due to China shills and people who don't understand reality. EVERY post about Chinese EVs goes exactly the same way.

Translation: US automakers are worried about Chinese imports servicing a sector they have abandoned.
- They haven't abandoned it they just over charge.

then start investing in tech, jobs, and education so the us can compete with inexpensive cars....
*editors note; i'm not a tankie, i just know that china has invested in technology while the us has been bogged down in partisanship (look at solar)
- We would also need the government to pay for half of the cost to build the cars. That's what China is doing and why the cars are so cheap.
  
  Sounds good to me. When are we starting?
  
  Sounds good.
  
  Finally my tax dollars would be going to something positive!
- *editors note; i’m not a tankie, i just know that china has ~~invested in~~ subsidized technology while the us has been bogged down in partisanship (look at solar)
  FTFY. While the Chinese government has made major investments in technology, the problem is their excessive subsidies which are allowing Chinese manufacturers to artificially out-compete their competitors. As others have pointed out, it's the same as "Big-Tech Disruptors" who begin with unsustainable prices, and once all their competitors leave the market they raise their prices.
  
  Are Chinese subsidies really excessive compared to American subsidies? Tesla owes its entire existence to the government giving it carbon tax credits among other subsidies. Every single qualifying electric vehicle has been getting thousands of dollars in the form of tax credits all the way up to $7500 and it's only been more generous now since it can be used as a rebate right at the dealership. American car companies have taken that to mean they can jack up prices by those thousands of dollars and even more, because they still treat EVs as mainly premium products.
  If you want to talk about artificially out-competing competitors, the 100% tariff is a prime example. The US has dragged its feet on technologies like EVs so they can juice profits and now it's crying and shrieking about competition being "unfair" for providing customers with a desirable product in a desirable price range. This protectionist policy not only sets back the fight against climate change, but also tightens the screws on customers who are already feeling the weight of inflation, just to continue the record profits by the auto companies.
  
  Sorta like how the US runs the petroleum markets? You should go look at how they deal with softwood lumber too. Multiple WTO complaints for unfair trade practices. The US chose where they want to pour their subsidies and so has China.
  
  They're not excessive subsidies. It's USA and Europe that are not subsidising EVs enough.
  Any country or car maker that does not get on board with decarbonisation of the transport sector needs to be shut down asap.
  
  America is the largest oil producer in the world. It should not be a surprise the incentives to move to EV is not big. The longer we are all addicted to oil, the more money America and fossil fuel giants make.
  China does not have much oil in the ground. They are investing in EV and renewables because it allows them independence from the oil lobby. Which is a very welcome coincidence to fight global warming.