is anyone else tired of heteronormativity?

Is there a reason why you're not out? Being upset or offended over comments made from those without knowledge of your personal feelings is misplaced. Leaving hints is not actual communication. If you want others to respect your feelings then you have to actually share those feelings. I wish you the best.

I'm not sure if they are accepting or not. There are very mixed signals
- i'm sure it can be nerve-wracking, i can sympathise with that. i can see why you'd be nervous.
  
  to any lurkers, this is just another component of why representation is so important-- it signals that it is okay, normal and in no way conditional to our love. if we simply operated from a default perspective that is not heteronormative, then we tacitly tell others that we, individually, have moved on from the era of anti-queer hatred.
  
  i'm not queer so i don't want to impose any uninvited advice, but i really hope that you can find peace with your family and with yourself.
If they always assume that you or everyone they meet are cishet you might not feel safe to come out. It's a chicken and egg situation that can be solved by not always assuming everyone to be cishet
I'm not sure if they are accepting or not. There are very mixed signals

I'm saying this in earnest and very much not trying to be rude or edgy, but the fact is a lot of people don't think about me/you/us at all, they're reciting things they think are normal to people they aren't close with like talking about the weather. Realizing some of my relatives I care about don't actually want to get invested in my life to the point of knowing I'm gay was a very freeing moment. Like understanding my grandma is 95 and doesn't want to try sushi now. And she was fine learning I married a man, but she wouldn't have brought it up. Decentralizing yourself from other people and realizing you have much more of a free slate than you think can be very helpful.

The percentage of the population that is LGBTQ+ is a little under 5%. I think that in all honesty that group is already over represented comparatively

Why bring this up here? What is the point of your reply?
- It’s also absolutely incorrect and pretty well documented - 9% of adults on average globally, trending much higher for youth according to some of the most recent data from Ipsos.
  
  But you’re absolutely right - bringing up population rates is unnecessary and kind of odd - and how many of us there are doesn’t negate how poorly we’re treated in many parts of the world, and the deficits we still face in western society.
- The discussion is on underrepresentation. Why would bringing up the percentage of population that’s queer be off-topic? The numbers (and sense that we’re overrepresented) may be wrong, but bringing it up absolutely makes sense. How does one seriously talk about being underrepresented or not without bringing what percentage of the population we might make up? How would one even gauge representation levels without such a framework?
- The discussion is on underrepresentation. Why would bringing up the percentage of population that’s queer be off-topic? The numbers (and sense that we’re overrepresented) may be wrong, but bringing it up absolutely makes sense. How does one seriously talk about being underrepresented or not without bringing what percentage of the population we might make up? How would one even gauge representation levels without such a framework?
To be honest I suspect any estimates of queer demographics are going to be dramatically lower than the actuality in part because things like gender and sexuality are fluid and heavily influenced by culture and upbringing. There may be several orders of magnitude more people who might otherwise identify as bi or some kind of genderqueer but not enough to justify investing in the self reflection, identity crisis, and social capital it would cost.

I usually wouldn't get involved in this topic, but I'm half past drunk right now so here it goes: I've got nothing against lgbtqia+, you do you, freedom for everyone. But taking into account that the norm and majority is hetero.... I really don't understand what you expect.... It would be like me, a metal head, would ask why aren't there more extreme metal bands than pop bands?

The issue isn’t that the majority of people are straight (though I’d point to what we saw in the rates of left handedness once we stopped punishing it), it’s how we talk about it and the assumptions we make - and it’s about the disparities LGBTQIA+ people can face because of the specifically heteronormative way society is set up.

Marriage equality is a great easy example - the reason marriage equality was (and is, in so many places) such a big deal wasn’t just so we could marry just like heterosexuals - it’s because there are so many rights afforded to married couples that aren’t afforded to others. Healthcare access is the big one - in so many places, only married spouses are considered ‘family’ and able to make decisions for their partner, or even visit them in hospital.

To use your analogy, it would be like there not being any metal concerts, ever, because everyone just likes pop, right? Why would anyone want to go to a metal gig?
Its different, it's that feeling when your music, which you know is absolutely fine, gets shat upon by christian conservatives who believe it's evil. But then throw in the cops and the government which historically and systemically shut down your opportunity to even play or listen to it and give more opportunities and legal benefits to those people who play pop.

And you're just trying to listen to the music you like, while every step of the way it gets way more difficult than it needs to be because it's systemically rigged for you not to be able to listen to it. It's exhausting.

edit: grammar
That doesn't mean it's not tiring.

But also, why does the norm need to be hetero vs "people are varied". Sure, most people are straight, but that doesn't mean it automatically has to be the default assumption, that's just a choice made by a... heteronormative society. Most of the time, we aren't in situations where we actually need to assume someone's sexual orientation, so we don't need to play the odds, as it were.
Nah. It'd be like if everyone just assumes that you like pop, because most people do. It might be understandable, but people constantly assuming you like pop and only pop is... tiring and annoying.

Also, on a personal note, it definitely stopped me from figuring it out wayyy earlier than I could have. "Normal/average people are straight, I am normal, therefore I am straight" was effectively my reasoning.
The issue isn’t that the majority of people are straight (though I’d point to what we saw in the rates of left handedness once we stopped punishing it), it’s how we talk about it and the assumptions we make - and it’s about the disparities LGBTQIA+ people can face because of the specifically heteronormative way society is set up.

Marriage equality is a great easy example - the reason marriage equality was (and is, in so many places) such a big deal wasn’t just so we could marry just like heterosexuals - it’s because there are so many rights afforded to married couples that aren’t afforded to others. Healthcare access is the big one - in so many places, only married spouses are considered ‘family’ and able to make decisions for their partner, or even visit them in hospital.

To use your analogy, it would be like there not being any metal concerts, ever, because everyone just likes pop, right? Why would anyone want to go to a metal gig?
Its different, it's that feeling when your music, which you know is absolutely fine, gets what upon by christian conservatives who believe it's evil. But then throw in the cops and the government which historically and systemically shut down your opportunity to even play or listen to it and give more opportunities and legal benefits to those people who play pop.

And you're just trying to listen to the music you like, while every step of the way it gets way more difficult than it needs to be because it's systemically rigged for you not to be able to listen to it. It's exhausting.
The issue isn’t that the majority of people are straight (though I’d point to what we saw in the rates of left handedness once we stopped punishing it), it’s how we talk about it and the assumptions we make - and it’s about the disparities LGBTQIA+ people can face because of the specifically heteronormative way society is set up.

Marriage equality is a great easy example - the reason marriage equality was (and is, in so many places) such a big deal wasn’t just so we could marry just like heterosexuals - it’s because there are so many rights afforded to married couples that aren’t afforded to others. Healthcare access is the big one - in so many places, only married spouses are considered ‘family’ and able to make decisions for their partner, or even visit them in hospital.

To use your analogy, it would be like there not being any metal concerts, ever, because everyone just likes pop, right? Why would anyone want to go to a metal gig?
Its different, it's that feeling when your music, which you know is absolutely fine, gets what upon by christian conservatives who believe it's evil. But then throw in the cops and the government which historically and systemically shut down your opportunity to even play or listen to it and give more opportunities and legal benefits to those people who play pop.

And you're just trying to listen to the music you like, while every step of the way it gets way more difficult than it needs to be because it's systemically rigged for you not to be able to listen to it. It's exhausting.

If 95% of people are hetero, then you shouldn't be surprised that 95% of people you see, on average, would be hetero. We don't need "more". we need about a 5% representation. Which we are getting now, it is more than it used to be (which is good), but a minority is a minority. I don't see why some group or other should get an inflated representation.

Not sure how you meant it, I kind of feel weird about your comment though. How do you get to 95% vs 5%? What about e.g. the Kinsey scale?

What feels totally weird about your comment to me, and actually outright offends me, is how you say that queer people need their 5% space and then we can get on with normal life. But to me, being queer is about breaking out of oppressive norms and heteronormativity is such an oppressive norm. I don't want to have to live with it. It not does all us queer people harm, it's bad for everyone. You cannot image how I cringe seeing how straight cis people act, it's just terrible. So no, 5% is not enough, I want everyone (!) to be free of norms and free what they want to do. And the view that being straight is a default, just like being male, cis, white, able-bodied, etc also has to go. That is just not reality and it does so much damage.
- They didn't say it's the default. If more people are straight, you'll see more straight representation. That's just generally how things work for everything, not just sexual orientation. There are more white people on TV in the US. There are more Japanese people on TV in Japan. You don't see as many redheads in American media. There aren't many shows focused around little people. I could go on and on with examples here.
- ou cannot image how I cringe seeing how straight cis people act, it’s just terrible.
  
  Speaking of offensive. You sound kind of bigoted yourself.
i think this is somewhat presumptive. that 95% figure comes from a world where the representation wasn't very good. a lot of people didn't know that being gay was a thing, and a lot of people still don't know that being gay is a thing they can be

we can't really know what those numbers would be in a truly accepting world, which is exactly why representation matters. even if it's "disproportionate"
95% of people definitely aren't hetero though. Or anyway, they aren't cisgender and straight and vanilla and mainstream in every other possible way related to sex and gender. We have no idea how many people are queer, but it's a lot more than 5%, and we won't know what the actual numbers are like until there have been several generations that are very queer accepting.
- "We have no idea, but it's definitely not that," is a bit contradictory, don't you think?
Whether or not that stat is true, I don't think that minority representation should be accurately reflected based on the percentage of the population the minority represents. Just as an example, if we're talking about television shows, and let's just throw out a number that there are 100 major characters across all of the major networks/most watched shows. That would mean all LGBTQ+ representation is contained to 5 characters.. The chance of any one non-invested viewer seeing those characters becomes minimal -- which means that both cishet folks aren't getting exposed to minority representation (something that helps normalize us), and LGBTQ+ folks aren't getting exposed to minority representation (something that helps our own confidence and mental health).
- Quite a lot of characters on TV or in media where their sexual orientation and/or gender identity is irrelevant, though.
  
  Not saying it’s accurately represented, but if you watch popular stuff - how much else is?
  
  Color? Gender? Mac vs. PC usage?
  
  Small steps at the time, but I think it’s important to note that there’s been progress. Yet female characters are still overly sexualized, but at least we usually get more than that token black guy now.
Did you know that 98.2% of statistics quoted by people online are simply pulled out of their ass? Did you know that people are less likely to be open about their sexuality when they'll face communal scorn and exclusion, or often physical harm, for openly expressing it?

The number of people that would identify as queer is certainly higher than 5%, and that doesn't even include all of the closeted or self-denying people that have been indoctrinated by religious bullshit or simply growing up in a conservative area.

That the number to which you default is 95% is a crystal clear example of the sort of heteronormativity they're referencing.
Not sure how you meant it, I kind of feel weird about your comment though. How do you get to 95% vs 5%? What about e.g. the Kinsey scale?

What feels totally weird about your comment to me, and actually outright offends me, is that the queer people need their 5% space and then we can get on with the normal life. But to me, being queer is about breaking out of oppressive norms and heteronormativity is such an oppressive norm. I don't want to have to live with it. It not does all us queer people harm, it's bad for everyone. You cannot image how I cringe seeing how straight cis people act, it's just terrible. So no, 5% is not enough, I want everyone (!) to be free of norms and free what they want to do. And the view that being straight is a default, just like being male, cis, white, able-bodied, etc also has to go. That is just not reality and it does so much damage.

It's tiring to see so many non marginalized individuals entering a marginalized space to claim that things are fine. Learn to read the room. All further discussion about whether this is "okay given statistics" shows a failure of empathy, a place of privilege, and an ignorance of the harm you are causing. I've decided to leave some of these comments up because some people benefit from seeing the discussion about how they are wrong, but to anyone who is entering this thread and is not queer and the only take you have to offer is "maybe you ARE over-represented" I will start banning you now.

common gaywallet W

i dont know how you have so much emotional energy to share here as much as you do, especially in the face of so much intolerance. much love.
- You give me energy with comments like this. I love you 🥰💜
to add some nuance to this, if anyone would like to listen. a cry from a cishet to the cishets.

beehaw platforms safe spaces. within that, this is a community for queer people. coming into this discussion as someone that isn't queer, a person needs to be aware of the nature of safe spaces. this isn't the same as seeing a post from r/cars on the front page of reddit and adding to the discussion that trains are more convenient for you. to queer people, many of these discussions are existential in nature. this will not carry the same weight to you, because it does not impact you in the same way- if at all.

take a moment to reflect on how irritating it is to see average people turn into experts on twitter whenever a new topic is trending. understand that in queer discussion, you are that person, but your words aren't simply annoying, they're harmful.

a common response to this is "well you can't have discussion with only people that agree with you, that's an echo chamber!". sure, you can put 100 men into a discussion about feminism and hear a hundred different opinions, but none of them will be a womans. there's enough cishets discussing this, respect that this space is designed to amplify the voices of the minority.

stay quiet, recognise that you have privilege blindspots, and say "thanks for sharing".

The comments in here aren't... what I was expecting from this community. Feels like I'm back on old internet. Ironically, the comments themselves seem to be perpetuating the heteronormativity brought up by the post.

I notice it's mostly people coming in from other communities saying things like "The population is small, so we should only have to see it as much as we see it now (basically never)," which reads as "You barely exist, so continue that way." This ignores the real world current statistics that people are increasingly feeling safe identifying as LGBT+, so we don't actually have a number of where that percentage will plateau. It could be significantly higher than the outdated 5% I'm seeing bandied about in here. It's already moved towards 8% of total USA population, with nearly 20% of Gen Z identifying LGBT. If that holds, then that's quite a lot more than the 5% everyone keeps saying.

Regardless of how little we supposedly matter based on a number, it's insulting to see people outside the community telling us how we should feel about our own experiences. That's not something they get to decide for us.

Unfortunately this is one of the issues with federation. In the future we would like to have all the identity based communities either beehaw users only or locked down from comments/posting. We have no control over other instances, but to remove their content or remind them how to act here. I've personally been avoiding a scorched earth policy for non-beehaw accounts, but I'm slowly finding myself leaning towards it because of behavior like this. I've cleaned up some of the worst of it, and I'm keeping a close eye on a few folks in this post.
Well said on all points. I expected better of this community.

I do not really care if people open with "Do you have a boyfriend?" or "Do you have a girlfriend?" Or "Do you have a partner?". I will answer any of those questions by telling them what kind of romantic relationship I do have. Their reaction to my answer is where I would judge their attitudes, but I would not get offended by them starting with any given assumption, no.

There are ways in which heteronormative assumptions can cause real issues and systemic neglect, but there's also something to be said about measuring the amount of emotional energy you expend worrying about any single manifestation of heteronormativity so that your investment is proportional to the actual impact. You'll exhaust yourself and others if you find yourself picking apart every interaction and event, or expecting people to be there already.

The biggest thing you could do to effect things in the way you want is to come out and then continue to be normal. That's how your normalize a thing for others.

There's also the possibility that your grandma noticed your hints and was providing you an opening to correct her without her explicitly asking if you were gay/bi (which might be an uncomfortably direct question for some people to be asked).

Not really. In fact, I enjoy how often queer relationships are featured in media. What I am tired of is straight writers trying, and failing, to write queer characters.

Ye i get you it's tiring. Just reading the replies to this post has been tiring because it already has a bunch of cishet people wanting us to stay in our little corner. When i read the description of beehaw i assumed this place was safe from that. I get that people JAQing off and quoting questionable statistics to say our actually felt problem is negligible aren't easy to deter but seeing them be the most liked replies was really disheartening.

Yeah, these replies are not at all what I expected to see coming into this thread. When did we decide that this is enough representation, and why did no one ask me?
- We didn't decide it, fragile cishet broflakes decided it for us.

Yes, I get tired of this as well. I'm out to everyone I know, so I don't experience it firsthand, but I think this sort of thing must feel especially alienating for LGBT+ youth.

People like to accuse us of making our sexual identity our whole personality and "shoving it down their throat," but from what I've seen this is all projection since many cis straight people will do so constantly without a shred of self awareness.

Everyone here are probably tired of that shit. Being asked about when will you get married is not fun. Assuming your partner must be of different gender is not fun. Gatekeeped out of some locations built for couple (but for some reason doesn't really think about same sex couple) is not fun.

I'm kind of in the closet because of a lot of this, but it's weird saying I'm in the closet when I'm ace. Like, on the one hand, what am I gonna do, go around telling everyone I don't have sex? That's weird. But at the same time, it's incredible how much normal small talk interactions with friends and even just-slightly-more-than-strangers revolves around sex and having sex.

"Sorry about that, I was up late last night and I'm still kinda worn out" "Oh, I'll bet you were, YOU DOG wink nudge"

or

"Yeah, my girlfriend and I are going camping this weekend" "Sounds like FUN, amirite? [insert multiple innuendos]"

or

"I'm going to be a little late to the get-together; I really need to clean the kitchen before I leave" "Going for that [HOT SEX ACT REWARD] huh? I get it! Go get [THE SEX POINTS]!"

Like, it's all over the place. It's every day. I just kind of nod along agreeably, but I feel like I'm a big dirty liar.

I watched Nimona the other night, and I really enjoyed it.

When posting on Mastodon about it, I specifically didn’t mention that the central relationship is a gay one, because would I have done so if it was straight? No, of course not.

It’s a little thing, I know…

Not really relevant to the overall thread, but I just learned Nimona exists earlier today while I was checking to see if K.Flay had any new songs out since I last checked! (She does, and it's one she did for Nimona.) That plus this comment has officially got it on my to-watch list!

yeah, its funny that heterosexuality is considered the default when it has to be constantly (often violently!) enforced.

The young mixed race gay couple that moved in across the street is always having people over and doing fun things. Then there is me trying to strap my screaming toddler into the car after trying to get her out the door for the past 45 minutes. Maybe they could not rub it in my face that they have all the free time in the world?

Then there's the goddamn leaf blower. Every time they mow, they then use a backpack gas leaf blower, leaves on the ground? Leaf blower. Just got done washing the car? Better blow dry it with the leaf blower.

Goddamn gay people making me miss being young and free.

I totally get the wish to see more representation in media. Fortunately there is more and more LGBTQ+ positive content. (Asking for suggestions might be an interesting topic! I'd go for Our Flag Means Death and The Sandman.)

Getting heteronormative behavior pressured into you by your surroundings at every step of life is another issue. And It's so stuffy and codified and normed too. Do you have a girlfriend? When will you get married? When's the baby? Uuurgh.

Yeah, it was extremely awkward especially when I was still with my now ex. They would jokingly ask if I'm texting a girl while I was texting my bf at the time
Yeah, it was extremely awkward especially when I was still with my now ex. They would jokingly ask if I'm texting a girl while I was texting my bf at the time
And for an older one I saw recently, the cheerleader was a good, if dated, option.

I don't think it has really bothered me in life. It's just a given thing for me and I understand why society is more focussed on heterosexual couples. I very much respect your opinion but personally (as a trans lesbian person) do not really prefer a change. I do have preferences on different subjects involving LGBTQ+ people but I will leave that for a different thread.

I'm transgender and don't really care, I have a lot more more important problems to be tired of. Most of my friends are on the LGBT spectrum and I don't interact with greater society all that much.

What tends to bother me more is how our world is built for neurotypicals, as someone with autism and CPTSD. That actually has an effect on my life.

cue the eye-rolling but what was it 21 years ago you could beat and kill lgbt and use the defense(gay panic)that them seeing a lgbt person drove them to such rage they couldn't/wouldn't be held accountable in a court of law.(Matthew Shepherd🙏was the first time it didn't work) along with don't ask don't tell. 1976 was the year the AMA removed that the mental illness that lgbt people suffered from causes them to be sexual deviates. for decades 5% of the pop identified as lgbt. when Obama included lgbt people in the hate crimes act the numbers soon shot up to 25% of the population. the 80s and 90s the thinking was if you could safely be out be out bc they couldn't kill all us without suffering a backlash and they'll just have to get use to lgbt folks. you want to push back on hetronormativty tell your grandmother pretty boys grandma I'm bi and then she knows she let's the family know and your life improves bc not being able to be seen as your trueself is damaging to your mental health and confidence AND they have skin in the game you and your safety and they'll be more likely to shut down homophobia and we all benefit from this but it's not going to work if 87% lgbt remain closeted. Just a thought

In practice, yes. Absolutely.

With your grandmother, no. Unless your grandmother is a raging asshole and doing it on purpose to sleight you - your grandmother likely loves you very very much. She’s not doing it on purpose.

(If your grandmother is intentionally sleighing you, ignore the following completely. Fk her if she is.)

Your grandmother likely has zero frame of reference to contextualize what she is inadvertently doing. She’s been doing and saying the same idioms for 60, 70, 80 years or more. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration but she’s not repeating them to sleight you.

If you have a good relationship I’m sure if she’s doing something that is especially triggering - she would be more than happy to adjust with gentle reminders after you’ve had a discussion about it and a gentle reminder when ever she falls back into old habits.

We all know kids learn language fast and more easily with immersion. Adults are exponentially worse. Can you imagine what it’s like for an Octogenarian, let alone with zero immersion? You are likely their ONLY point of reference. It’s going to take time to unlearn those habits. It’s like they’ve only spoken English their entire life and suddenly everyone around them speaks fluent Spanish and those around them are frustrated with them that they keep speaking English. They haven’t changed or moved - everyone else is changing around them, and although for the better your grandparents are understandably confused at the resentment.

Regardless - If she actually knows certain phrases bother you she will change. It will take practice on her part. But give her some latitude.

If she refuses to change, family is who you choose to surround yourself with, not who’s genetics you share. If you’re young and compelled to acquiesce to the whim of your parents in the meantime to tolerate your grandparents, know you’ll be able to choose for yourself who your family are sooner than to think.

But what I wouldn’t give for even one more day with my grandmother who loved, accepted, and supported me like no other even when she didn’t completely understand. Even when she got it wrong she tried so, so hard to get it right. She’d even correct other people and shoot me a grin afterward - so proud of me and proud of herself for advocating for me and being a better person.

Get mad at others especially ones that don’t care about you - but be patient and love your grandmother unconditionally like she loves you.

And hug her big for my sake. Maybe twice.

Humans are simple creatures. It’s difficult for them to think for themselves.

I usually wouldn't get involved in this topic, but I'm half past drunk right now so here it goes: I've got nothing against lgbtqia+, you do you, freedom for everyone. But taking into account that the norm and majority is hetero.... I really don't understand what you expect.... It would be like me, a metal head, would ask why aren't there more extreme metal bands than pop bands?