People have honestly no idea about the early history of the US.
The pilgrims literally left England because they couldn't oppress people enough. They can to America to build their perfect religious society.
Many colonies in the South weren't 'fleeing' anything, they were fully funded by the crown with the goal of settling the land and sending resources and taxes back to Britain.
Here's another semi obscure tidbit.
Do you know what happened to the puritan religion? As in, the actual church that was famous for burning witches and forcing women to wear letters.
It morphed into the United Church of Christ and, I kid you not, the Unitarian Universalists. (Among other splinters)
I'm not sure about the founding fathers, but isn't that exactly why the pilgrims came to North America?
The British sent a bunch of crazy religious dicks off and hoped for the best.
I've been watching a lot of QI lately, and that was a topic in a recent episode I watched. You basically got it exactly.
The whole 'pilgrims escaping religious persecution' story is an absolute myth. The puritans basically wanted to be able to persecute others for not following their beliefs - they were the persecutors. It's wild (and similar to what we're seeing today).
So, the wannabe theocrats we have today are correct about the pilgrims wanting a theocracy (in 1620), but the people who we consider the Founding Fathers didn't actually found the country until 157 years later.
That's a big gap of time they're overlooking / disregarding.
Maybe we should just set them adrift like England did and hope for the best.
Yes, no, it's complicated. If you wanted to cherry pick data for either direction, you can do it. It's more accurate to say there was a wide mix of ideologies.
Maybe we shouldn't be so beholden to the opinions of people from 200+ years ago.
I still don't get why this is so important to people. Yes there was a religious cult that came to what is now the US. Ok? It's a cute historical event but it doesn't add up to a whole lot.
Yes, to the founding fathers, the monarchy was an entity like god. It was there but did nothing, helped them in no way and only took from them. They were all born into this colony where people were expected to serve a faceless king across the ocean.
Wasn't Britan already a democracy back then? The king wasn't a dictator as I understand it. I think it was a constitutional monarchy with a parliament. The founding fathers were just pissed that Americans had no representation in that democracy. I'm not an expert, I could be wrong.
Technically, the pilgrims who fled to America were fleeing away from progressive changes to theology in Europe at the time. That's why all the pilgrim women covered their hair, their legs, and sacrificed goats.
George and the homies appreciated separation of Church and State, though, so props for that at least.
They were the freaks of their society. They weren't facing religious persecution. They were utter outcasts for being nuts about it.
Ahh yes the merchant revolution of the US, in which rich white men got mad about paying taxes and the whispers of slave abolition in England and revolted.
It wasn't the people's war, it was the merchants war.
Similar thing with the French revolution, it's the bourgeoisie who found nobility privileges unfair that led most of it.
Had nothing to do with suspending the right to trial by jury, forced deportations, suspending peaceful assembly, demanding quartering troops, cutting off trade routes...
Yeah who cares what the founders wanted? What do we want right now?
I never understood this. Why do deify these men? If anything we should be proud of the progress we have made since they've been dead and understand their important, but deeply flawed place in history. Anything else is just mythological, ultranationalist propaganda
The founders didn't flee anything. They were born here and got tired of taxes and oppression.
Well, most of them were born here at least.
Even if they had, this country is no longer theirs, for they no longer live in it, we do, and it is ours. Even if, for the sake of argument, they had chosen to run things by the rules of a particular religion, we would be under no obligation to run our United States the way they ran theirs.
No, they did it so they could steal land from the indigenous peoples.
They didn't flee from shit!
They spilled their own blood and the blood of those who would impose their beliefs onto them inorder to free themselves of any such imposing.
Yeah, but try telling that to all the people who've been brainwashed into thinking this was founded as a Christian country and that the founders were all Christians.
Permanently Deleted
What if we were the kings though?
- privileged white dudes
Um, actually, that is exactly why the Puritans did so. England wouldn't let them impose their religious beliefs upon the populace at large. (Please note: while someone else answered this already, they did not say um, actually. Therefore I get the point.)
There was that intermediate bit where they went to Amsterdam and couldn't handle all the religious freedom, so then they went to America.
Idgaf what they thought.
Didn’t they own people and commit treason??
Look, we only worship false idols when and/or where it reinforces our beliefs. So this shit doesn't matter! In one ear and out the other until my pastor/news host/political personality mouthpiece tells me what to think about that retort of yours and how to respond! In the meantime I will pray on it and pray you find Jesus and that will bring me great comfort and validation that I'm working on personal growth. Because I recognize my flaws and problems and quietly ask someone else to help me fix them unlike you heathens.
sorry, triggered, in a mood and got carried away lol
They revolted because the rich hate paying taxes. Just like now.
more like not to build an oligopoly
And you can’t recognize worker, if he is rotated by 45 degrees. So you kill him. For the king!
Yes they did...
