online anti cheats are the worst thing
online anti cheats are the worst thing
Recently, i had to move from nixos to windows against my will simpy because of anti cheats. While i dont game that much, the few games i enjoy playing are all online with some kind of anti cheat. I used to dual boot but i was tired of having to wait for my slow hdd to load windows (i only have one ssd). I literally used linux for everything else but because of anti cheats i am forced to move to windows. I managed to make it a little better by using wsl2 and removing bloatware but it will never be the same as linux
I think what you meant to write is "online games with anticheat are the worst thing".
Because "online anticheat" is becoming a thing wherein the anticheat system is run on a remote server and not your local system. Not only does it not need to install malware on your local system, but it does a better job at catching cheaters.
Yup, and it's a fantastic option. AFAIK, that's what Valve uses for CS:GO, and while it's not perfect, it isn't intrusive and largely does its job.
That's not even what I was referring to. I'm talking about full anticheat server-side. Waldo Vision
I could be wrong but I believe most games (e.g: Fairfight in all EA games) do have a server-side anti-cheats, just not very effective ones because they like for EAC/BE to do most of the work.
No, you're not wrong, but like you said they don't really do much. But what I'm talking about is fully functional server-side anticheat. Check this out Waldo Vision. I skipped past the intro, cause that had WAN Show clips, which haven't aged well...
I refuse to buy a game that has DRM or anti cheat.
Which is fine, but it isn't a perfect strategy, because developers and publishers have complete control to replace the client at any time to add features you decline to use, and you are not automatically entitled to a refund if that happens.
Do you use the Steam storefront at all then?
I prefer gog.com
Sometimes you have to choose between what is convenient and what is right, and sometimes that means giving things up. But not everyone is willing or able to do that. It's fine, do what you feel you need to.
This. Use whatever is best for you and sometimes that just isn’t Linux. We don’t win people over by trying to force anything :)
Hopefully this issue will continue to get better over time, which it is slowly.
Same here. I’ve only a Linux machine for over a decade but I had to go out and buy Windows just so I could play on FaceIT. I’m praying that cs2 supports Linux and the MM experience is good enough to make FaceIT obsolete.
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NVMe drives have become to inexpensive recently I just bit the bullet and dual-boot windows from it's own drive. Takes less than ten seconds to switch.
Just make sure you physically disconnect all other storage devices while installing windows. The windows boot loader seems to make itself comfy on any drive it can find.
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Anti-cheat as a concept is fine but invasive client-side anti cheat just aren't it.
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I play League of Legends via Proton. I assume it has an anti cheat and I never had issues with cheaters/hackers. I refuse to believe they need kernel level anti cheat for valorant. Not that I care about shooters.
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Most developers don't support their native Linux release at all. You'll download an automatic update, and suddenly the game doesn't even start; check the forum and find out, they never even tested the Linux build, it's just all automatic, and it's gonna take a couple of weeks before they get their linux box updated and working again so they can fix it because their one linux guy is working on something else. It's crap. Proton has been a massive improvement in game reliability.
Don't be so spineless.
Plenty of games work without anti cheat on Linux and I only play them.
You just buckled under the tiniest amount of pressure, but you would have to pry Linux out of my cold dead hands.
Not sure why there are so many downvotes. Are there really that many people in here of all places who think gaming is just triple-A games from companies that don't respect their players and nothing else?
Edit: wording
I don't like it because that's the kind of elitist attitude that turns away new people from checking out Linux gaming. Imagine that as a response to "Hey I play these games and am interested in Linux". You're going to tell them: "switch to Linux and give up those games and if you don't you're not committed enough"?
It's gatekeeping "console-wars" fanboy mentality. Like a
LinuxPlaystation fan attacking someone for playing anWindowsXbox Exclusive. As if that's supposed to be their whole identity, and not just a way to play video games.There's nothing wrong with having multiple consoles; there's nothing wrong with dual-booting.
I could stop playing these games right now. As i said i'm don't use my computer for gaming that much. I could be perfectly satisfied with only minecraft. But i play them with the homies and i can't let them down
DENY YOURSELF EVERY PLEASURE IN LIFE IN SERVICE TO THE OPEN SOURCE GODS
I just refuse to buy any games with client side anti cheat. It's just too much of a security and privacy risk to have those rootkits on my computers.
Out of curiosity, which games are those?
Fall guys fortnite and apex (judge me if you want but my broke firend don't wanna try anything else)
I can confirm that both apex and fallguys are working just fine on Linux. Fortnite on the other hand does not.
With the exception of the false positive ban wave reported a few days ago, Apex Legends has played flawlessly on Linux for the last couple of years. According to comments on protondb, Fall Guys also appears to be working fine, including multiplayer with anti-cheat. I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't run Windows if you want to, but perhaps you didn't fully explore all options?
If you switch back to Linux you could suggest Shatterline to your broke friends. It's f2p and had no issues with anti-cheat last time I tried it. I think Overwatch 2 is also f2p.
Honestly something I'm surprised no game is doing is embrace the hackers.
For example, create a HvH gamemode where users can use lua scripts to aid them. I bet this would turn a lot of people away from the actual cheating scene.
Cheaters are sociopaths. Most of them pretend to be good and post clips or try to get a following until they inevitably get banned.
Every script kiddie says this same thing. There are already HvH servers. Barely anyone plays them. If a company had official HvH it would encourage cheating. Fuck cheaters..
definitely not all cheaters are sociopaths, been in the cheating community since 2014-ish (starting to slowly back off and leave recently just due to the the obvious toxicity in it) and have made plenty of genuinely great friends there but ofc it is mostly horrible people, especially the people who closet and hide it from friends. do agree that this plan would never work though, but HvH was never really dead, it was at its peak in 2020 where there were probably 200+ people playing although it's really only active in EU now.
Cheating via a lua script integrated into a game is waaaay different to cheating via external software, though mainly from the cheat developers side, less so from the users side, as you need to "fight" the anti-cheat.
Also, I think that considering all cheaters selfish (what is what I think you meant by calling cheaters sociopaths, see below) and bad at the game, really limits ones perspective, as not everyone hacks for the same reason. These reasons include:
- Believing one needs cheats to stay competitive (either because one believes others are cheating or because, as you mentioned, due to lack of abilities)
- For profit (to produce accounts with high value / tradable items/currency or to develop and sell cheats)
- Due to frustration with progress towards a goal (often overlaps with #1, especially for players which are good at the game)
- Enjoyment in breaking the games limits (note that this doesn't decrease much in HvH)
- The feeling of being more powerful than other players (often overlaps with #1, but also overlaps with smurfing)
- For a sense of community (among other hackers, overlap with #2 or among mainstream players, overlap with #1 & #3)
Full disclosure, for me #4 and #5 are the most appealing, with the first two not being that appealing. Note that #1 and #3, are as applicable, if not more sometimes, to high skill players as to low skill players. Two examples I can give of the top of my head are the 2021 trackmania cheating scandal and the Hypixel skyblock dungeon speedruning scene. In both cases there were competitive scenes that (at least from an outsiders point of view) seem legitimate, but a lot of top players all use cheats. Also note that players motivated by #2 are less affected with a pay wall, which could even make them cheat more.
Why one cheats can also impact how one cheats. A player motivated by #1 and #3 is likely to hide their cheats (aka silent cheating I think?) while a player motivated by #2 or #5 may cheat in a way which is obvious to other players and they might not mind getting banned.
Also also, players who are more skilled at the game, can not only take a fuller advantage of cheats but also be more difficult to detect, as they know what they can get away with.
As for your usage of the word sociopath, which I don't think is accurate, though I don't blame you for it, mind you: antisocial personality disorder (the formal diagnosis for someone referred to as a sociopath), is an actual mental condition and using it because someone does not show empathy and/or seeks attention (which is not even a symptom of ASPD, I think you may be confusing it with narcissistic personality disorder?), not only flattens your understanding of the disorder but also raises a bad assumption: while a person with ASPD may find it harder to understand why certain actions are considered bad by others, that's not an excuse for them to be abusive etc. The same applies to the common usage of narcissist/narcissistic.
TL;DR: IMHO what you said is an oversimplification which may make reducing the number of cheaters in competitive spaces more difficult.
this might (barely) work for Source games like CS:GO, TF2, etc but on games like Overwatch, Valorant, Fortnite, etc there are a lot less exploits that would keep HvH actually interestering like fake angles, doubletap, etc like there are in the Source Engine (mind you this is because the engine is literally from 2003 and based on Goldsrc which is based on the damn Quake engine.)
also this did exist for a while in cs:go TECHNICALLY, wingman in CSGO had overwatch disabled (when they were collecting data for vac.net) for almost a year and was literally just used to hvh but it never stopped people from cheating in competitive.
Good point! I honestly only have experience with Minecraft where the vanilla anti cheat is so bad it is often disabled and there are quite a few interesting ways to cheat (Cristal PvP, baritone, etc), so my perspective is limited by that.
However, I feel like if a game has mechanics with enough depth and achieving TAS like gameplay gave a significant advantage, I think, at least for those wanting to develop cheats, it could be fun.
Also, I'm not saying this would prevent cheating in competitive play, but it could give developers more insight into how cheats can be used (like with your example). Cheaters are not a monolith, but I don't want to repeat my other comment :P
Dam. Sorry to hear.
There’s unfortunately not much to do.
Linux is inherently less “secure” to developers. They have to sacrifice anti-chest efficiency to enable them on Linux, which is a tradeoff most aren’t willing to make.
Most every game I play requires me to stay on windows. I don’t really get any enjoyment out of single player games anymore. So windows stays as the primary OS and that’s likely never going to change.
So don't get into those games in the first place. There are so many games available. You will never exhaust them all.
I primarily play competitive fps games. They’re more or less the only genre of gaming that’s any kind of fun anymore imo.
I don’t enjoy single player games. I own literally thousands of dollars of indie/AA single player games that I don’t enjoy, so I’ve stopped buying new ones. I’m simply not interested in non-competitive games. They’re not fun and I’d rather not play them.
But it's not. Easy anti-cheat, for example, works on Linux. The problem isn't with Linux, it's that developers don't target Linux, so their anti-cheat systems don't work on Linux.
And that's fine with me, though it would help Linux adoption if those games worked on Linux. But it's not an inherent limitation of Linux, it's just something devs need to proactively support.
So EAC works, but it works at a different level than it does on windows. EAC does become less secure on both platforms when Linux support is enabled from my understanding. BattleEye, Vanguard and Riots AC don’t work on Linux either, which is a significant portion of major games right now.
I’d argue it is an inherent limitation of Linux, as it’s so open that it’s harder to validate a user isn’t using 3rd party programs to cheat.
This is why I have a dual boot: Windows for gaming only, Mint for everything else.