Riot official response about League of Legends on Linux for Vanguard anti cheat
Riot official response about League of Legends on Linux for Vanguard anti cheat
Fuck Riot. Never playing their games again. If you're going to have a shitty anticheat at least give people the option to play in anticheat disabled lobbies. Besides, they should be doing anticheat at the server level not spying on the boot sequence of client PCs. That shit is unnecessary for a fucking banking app let alone a goddamn game. It's just a game, let us enjoy it rather than making such a ridiculously over the top response to cheating.
The issue with this entire statement is that despite the amount of system access they want, and the complexity of the software they've made, cheating is as rampant as it was before. The fact that they continue treating Linux as an issue, just as Ubisoft do with Siege, or Bungie with Destiny, just shows that there is a much larger issue at hand
How far is the company willing to go to prevent cheating? Cameras in people's homes to make sure they're not using another computer that your anti-cheat has no access to?
If players tolerate that then competitive gaming is going in a deeper dark pit of proprietary spyware in the name of fighting cheating, an arms race with no end.
and the difficulty in securing it is only compounded by all the frustrating differences between distributions.
You DO NOT get to bitch about dIfFeReNcEs while you're writing rootkits. Fuck off.
The "distributions" argument always smells like bullshit. Developers actually interested on supporting Linux usually stick to one or two distros of their choice. (Typically Ubuntu.)
Beyond that: I don't play LoL, but the fact that they need such an aggressive rootkit as anti-cheat hints poor game design. As in, why are your players so eager to cheat?
If you have to put a root kit on the client to prevent cheating you have no idea how to implement correct anti-cheat and you should be flogged.
"linux does not allow us a good enough ability to confirm boot state"
Skill issue, L for riot games.
Realistically, if this is true, it's because of security. Shocker on that one really. Also, there are probably only 800 players on linux because the anti cheat doesnt fucking work. But that doesnt count apparently
I don't believe that only 800 people played on Linux. It makes no sense to me in the grand scheme of things. I have a personal YT channel with only 108 subs and my random low effort video on how to get League running on Steam Deck has almost 70k views which is nuts and there are many other much better videos than mine with many more views. If only 0.1% of those people are active players that would still make a lot more than "800" figure. I know this is just a random speculation but 800 is just waaaay too low.
Honestly, i don't get why people are bitching about it so much. A company, that makes a game with intention to make money off it, that never supported linux neither promised to support linux some time in the future, clarifies that it sees no purpose in supporting linux because of monetary reasons.
Okay, that may be your favorite game, you might have spend tons of money on in - but idea that it may never be supported on your favorite platform has never crossed your mind? It's like whining that PS exclusive game is not getting ported to Xbox.
So basically, “it’s too hard, and our engineers are not good at their jobs.”
Imagine this: you have a cheater problem. Your team of developers have only ever worked on gameplay-related stuff - graphics, game engine, etc. You can:
- Make them pull solution out of their butts, somehow gain expertise in topic they have never worked on
- Pour ALOT of money in HR and hire specialists that have experience in anticheat software
- Pay 3rd party for solution that you can use RIGHT NOW and that works (at least somehow)
When money is involved, you make decision by counting them. You give somebody (tech lead, probably) task to evaluate your options - and give you approximate numbers. And i'm not surprised they chose 3rd option.
Stop stealing our CPU cycles for high risk rootkits and start mitigating and detecting cheating on the server. It’s that easy.
I'm currently working on bot detection for web resources - and trust me, it's extremely hard to distinguish them from people without some client-side analysis. Sure, you can use behavioral analysis, but you need lots of data and, again, expertise in that. Okay, they have the data - thousands of games played daily. Have you ever seen job listing for "game patterns analyst for LoL"? Again, you have to find someone capable - highly payed experts, who will spend some time testing their theories, with no guaranteed success.
"How do you separate good players from cheaters? This low ranked player who just got his second pentakill - is he cheating or smurfing? This weird behaviour - is it because of missing fog of war or are they just communicating over voice chat?"
It's just... really NOT that easy.
The “distributions” argument always smells like bullshit. Developers actually interested on supporting Linux usually stick to one or two distros of their choice. (Typically Ubuntu.)
There's your answer - they are not interested. And there is nothing wrong with that! It's just business! Remember the "a times b times c" scene from fight club? They've calculated their x - and it's not worth pursuing (for them).
Rootkits are bad, m'kay. Wanna avoid them? Don't install them. Just don't be surprised when company adds them - it's their product, they do whatever the fuck they want.
I can't believe they made a shitty Dota clone based off the Arcane animation on Netflix.
Makes business sense. Why bother developing for 800 users when you have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to worry about? The software company I work for has to make this kind of decision all the time.
But it was nice of them to include a viable strategy for cheaters via VMs.
Edit: I should clarify that "business sense" is almost always a poor excuse, and considering the potential growth in the Linux market thanks to handhelds, Proton, and NVK, seems dumb to thumb your nose at that potential.
Solution is easy: don't play LoL 🤷
Riot is owned by Tencent. Coincidence?
their "hello fellow kids" energy works better for their goofy insignificant patch notes than it does for combating bad PR.
i was very on the fence about keeping it installed on a potato windows laptop i don't use for much else. this article absolutely convinced me fully not to. they could not have written a worse case for themselves if they had tried.
they have stated they even intend to try getting anticheat on macs as soon as possible. even if it is not possible, (which seems likely to me, considering the ecosystem?) their argument for axing linux could easily be used to just ditch macs. "we don't know how to secure it, and there were only 800 players [on a random, cherry picked day.]"
having a section in which they claim there are zero false positives is delusional. that's not how technology works. there will literally always be bugs, glitches, edge cases.
they claim they can currently read stuff in user mode, so it'll be essentially analogous in invasiveness, and it's straight bullshit.
this is several degrees of trust beyond "can read stuff in user mode when running"
this is "can read anything in user mode, in admin mode, on all other users on your computer, can restrict your bios and hardware, and has full potential to have permanent root access to any user or system you install in the future"either they do not understand what they are implementing, which is a really bad sign for trusting them with it,
or they know exactly what they are doing and lying about it, which is another really bad sign for trusting them with it.i'm gonna be honest, if they had taken the hardline "we know it's more invasive, but we need this" and kept it straight, i might have kept playing. it's the only multiplayer competitive game i have anymore.
but the ad hominem attacks in here, the calls to the "angry twitter mobs," the disingenuous and extremely loose way they play with the truth,
(it's not running all the time! well, it is, but we don't really think it should count)that in just a few paragraphs has burned any goodwill i had towards them. they are weaponizing their own playerbase to cannibalize themselves and attack their friends for having legitimate concerns about degrees of personal invasion and that's unconscionable. that disgusts me more than the crappy implementation and the cavalier attitude ever could.props to them, i guess, for making the only choice to be to quit a game i played happily for about a decade.
I've never actually noticed cheaters during the time I played the game. If they cheat and matchmaking puts me against them, it just means that me without cheats and them with cheats are equivalent in skill level, so it's a fair and fun game. So I don't see the point in preventing cheats in the first place unless you're at the very top of the ladder, and there's so few people up there that it should be easy to just manually ban the cheaters.
Good riddance, spent several years hooked to League. That being said, the fragmentation argument is bullshit, they could ship a read-only container in a flatpak and it'd run everywhere.
Kernel level is a huge risk and it doesn't guarantee anything, especially in the age of Ai cheats and network mitm cheats
I just read from that: Other OSes are inferior and they won't tell their userbase. Cheapshots I guess.
Permanently Deleted
I'm dual booting windows and linux and I'm only using Windows for applications I can't get to run on Linux. If I'm installing Vanguard on Windows, could that be a safety concern for my Linux partition? Since I have no personal data on Windows, I wouldn't mind installing it there, as long as it's not an issue for my linux partition