Linux @lemmy.ml Catasaur @lemmy.catasaur.xyz 1 yr. ago

Trying to get my partner to switch from Windows to Linux. Has anyone tried Scrivener with Wine?

My partner doesn't do much on the computer except web browsing and writing. The Scrivener writing program had a Linux version at some point that was abandoned.

I wanted to see if anyone personally has used Scrivener with Wine and if it is fussy or not. How has your experience been?

I could set it up for them, but they're not a tech person and will probably reject Linux if it breaks all the time and they have to get me to come fix it.

Extra irrelevant info: trying to decide on having them try Mint or Ubuntu. Fedora is my daily driver and I typically use a headless Debian install for servers, but I heard Mint and Ubuntu are pretty perfect and low fuss for Windows users.

69 comments

I haven't tried Scrinever. What follows is about trying to convert people to Linux, you can safely ignore the comment if you're not interested.

If the will doesn't come from him, he will certainly look for things he doesn't like and that will confort him in staying on Windows.

I'd say keep him informed and let him make his decisions with the information he has.
- That's a good and sadly realistic point.
  
  I read a forum post back in the day about a guy that forced his wife and kids to use FreeBSD and they hated it. It was pretty funny but I also don't want to be that guy
  
  Exactly. No one wants their autonomy removed regardless of whether it’s arguably in their interest or not. It sucks the joy out of it.
  
  My wife is basically tech illiterate and has 0 desire to ever use something that doesn’t just work out of the box. We’ve moved some of her software to foss (darktable over Lightroom due to their stupid subscription only model) but she’s really only comfortable on a MacBook and even then only after I’ve set the whole thing up and maintain software/os updates.
  
  macOS also sucks for smb file shares so I have a FreeBSD jail that just does xrdp and ssh X-11 forwarding (better color matching for photos this way) and she runs a script disguised as a desktop shortcut to run her apps. The script launches an ssh session and pops up a simple program I wrote that just lists available apps like darkroom. Gives her native file speeds and 0 need to understand anything related to the OS. My rambling point here is unless you set it up so the SO doesn’t need to learn it’s likely to fail and in return you’ll be responsible for all of the maintenance. Unless you’re ok with that it’s probably not a good idea
  
  In my experience, not pushing it makes them want to try it themselves at some point. I guess you need to take care of their computer frequently enough, and are probably annoyed by Windows shitting its pants every time again. Don't make any drama out of it, just point out how ridiculous it is that Microsoft cannot manage to build something that allows running two simple programs without breaking or nagging the user so often. They know that you use something else with which you're happy with, and at some point they will become curious and ask wheter they can have it too. At that point do not promise much, say that it works a lot better but is also a lot different and sometimes a bit quirky. Do not rush it now, let them simmer in their curiousity. At a fitting occasion tell them very briefly about foss and how it is not a closed thing pushed by a corporation onto individuals to funnel data. When they ask if they can try it, tell them they can but it takes a bit of getting used to. Buy a new SSD, and safely store the previous storage in a anti static bag, exclaiming that everything is on there and cannot get lost due to linux. Set everything up with a dead easy DE, give clear tour of how stuff works. With this tactic, they want to get it to work by themselves, and are prepared to learn that some things work differently. It becomes an adventure that is totally revertable if it doesn't work out. In contrast to when you want to force the change and they use everything as a reason to be unhappy about it.
I'll likely get downvoted for this.

It doesn't seem like there's any advantage for them in switching to Linux.

It'll just make their experience harder for no real gains for them.
- I wonder how much functionality of Scrivener you could get in Obsidian. I found an article about someone setting their Obsidian vault up to run a workflow similar to Scrivener.
  
  Obsidian is my Scrivener replacement. It's not the same, but it's a great tool that actually gives me more of what I wanted from Scrivener.
Not sure there's really much point in trying to push people to use Linux if they aren't interested in computers.

Imagine if someone came up to you raving about switching to a new car brand that has a 5% higher top speed and 10% more fuel efficiency for your money but the handbrake is in on the roof, you change gears with buttons instead of a gear stick and you fill the tires with water instead of air

Most people don't care about what software runs on their computer and just want the default because it works the same way everyone else's does

Only way Linux gets into the mainstream is if consumer hardware with it preinstalled gets popular, the steam deck is a good start
- Thats not really true though... I installed linux on computer-illeterate people so that they would avoid viruses and they were happy with it...
  
  I always worry with those kinds of installations that I'm going to become permanent tech support because Linux problems are far less universal
  
  Also if they need to run Photoshop or full fat Office they're kinda screwed
  
  Ok if they are browsing and reading emails BUT you are the administrator. But apparently s/he has a Windows only program s/he relies on... Using Wine will only increase the probability of the program crashing
- It's their partner. Maybe OP just wants to get rid of microsoft in their home network and the household, which is not an absurd thing I think.
  
  Bingo!
  
  They wanted to give it a try so win-win for both of us if they end up liking it.
  
  I'm probably going to be unpopular for saying this but I think at some point you just have to settle. What practical difference does it actually make to your life if someone else has windows on your network
- [This comment has been deleted by an automated system]
- Preinstalled on consumer hardware like Chromebooks in every school or for some unfathomable reason some of the nursing homes I work with?
It looks like it runs in wine. https://www.reddit.com/r/scrivener/comments/102pvtk/scrivener_on_linux_abandoned/

Mint is easiest for old windows users.
i think the most important part is that if they switch to linux, you are now their IT support, and they will rely on you. be patient and understanding with them, even if stuff is not necessarily broken.
On the distros: Go with mint. ubuntu has snaps which are the perfect way to scare new users away. They make everything super slow to launch and cause errors that make no sense if you don't know how snaps work.

And worst of all, if you type "sudo apt install firefox", hit enter and press Y, you won't get what you asked for. You'll get the snap version of firefox and the only way to know that is if you read and understand the output of apt.
- @nottheengineer is this also the case with Ubuntu server? If so is there a way to turn that shit off,
  
  They are definitely pushing it there too, but not as hard. There isn't a way to disable this shitty behaviour, you need to manually set apt up to not pull snaps for every package individually.
- Well non tech literate people probably wont notice the start up time and they shouldn't be using the terminal
  
  Normal users do care about whether their browser takes 1 or 5 seconds to start up. That's the difference between a new device and one from 3 years ago.
  
  And for those that aren't comfortable with the terminal, snaps are an even bigger issue. All their apps will be slow and glitchy and they won't have any idea why.
- You do realize non tech people have absolutely no idea about package formats and such?? If you don't understand something you should probably not worry about it
  
  That's exactly my point. They shouldn't have to worry about it and if you pick a distro without snaps, they don't have to.
Usually rated "Gold" or "Platinum" on AppDB:

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=12274

Platinum: "Applications which install and run flawlessly on an out-of-the-box Wine installation"
Gold: "Applications that work flawlessly with some special configuration"

Click on a version. Apparently it works perfectly, but you need to winetricks corefont, vcrun6, speechsdk, and sapi for the initial install.
Why do you want other people to switch to Linux? I don't understand making fuss with relationships for an OS. Especially if they have Windows programs. Plus now everytime there is a problem, s/he will always call you. What does s/he think?
- They don't want to at all but I've chained them to the desk and propped their eyes open clockwork orange style. They have no choice but to watch me remove Windows
I use the Windows version of Scrivener 3 on Linux. It works almost perfectly. Sometimes it’ll freeze after opening a file, but force-quit and restart the app, and it’s fine.
I don't think you'll find many people here who have used this particular software. I hadn't even heard of it until I read this post. Why not just try to get it to run on your machine? If you're scared of messing up something, just put it in a VM.

Edit: oh and try Bottles. That's a pretty easy way to get Windows stuff to run on Linux.
- It's a pretty popular writing software, though you mainly hear about it in writing circles so that might be why you never heard of it.
- Why not just try to get it to run on your machine?
  
  I wanted to gauge the level of effort involved first. I easily can sink hours into tinkering something and getting it to eventually work but sometimes it isn't worth it.
Scrivener works fine. I wouldn’t use Ubuntu, but that’s my personal opinion
Honestly, I've found that for non tech-savvy people making any sort of major change results in confusion and frustration. Unless there's a reason that you're wanting them to switch at this particular point in time, and unless the impetus for the change is coming from them...just leave it, don't mess with a setup they're comfortable with.
It works decently. I use it.
Linux makes a fantastic writing / research machine but helping folks make the transition to Linux can be difficult.

Everyone comes at it from a different angle and with a different intensity. Sometimes just letting them explore available options can be what they need. I've found that allowing the transition to be an open, running conversation, can be really helpful and much less stressful. There's a lot to learn, even with Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc..

If you haven't found them already, here's a few personal favorite writing apps/systems (in no particular order) I've enjoyed using over the years.

Fadein https://www.fadeinpro.com/

Focus writer https://gottcode.org/focuswriter/

Wordgrinder http://cowlark.com/wordgrinder/index.html

Emacs org-mode https://jacmoes.wordpress.com/2019/09/24/creative-writing-with-emacs/#Manuskript_and_the_cork_board
- Nice i look at these
- Fadein works great on Linux! I second this!
  
  Love that I can easily switch from phone to laptop when working with Fadein.
A lot of input in the comments, I'll just add mine in the mix.
I guess wanting to change the OS for someone can be good if:

the current Windows version is EOL and/or has security issues/concerns,

the hardware is too old to upgrade,

the current user is fed up with crashes, popups, slowliness etc...

Now, I would go for Mint anyday instead of Ubuntu, because the default matte desktop feels more confortable when coming from windows.

As for Scrivener, I don't even know what it is, but Wine is quite good recently, so if you're tech/linux savy, you could try to make it work.
If he drops Windows for Linux, he might as well opt for a free writing software. I read that Manuskript has pretty much all the features of Scrivener and is somewhat similar so the learning curve should not be too steep.

Maybe best to set it up in a separate partition or PC for a trial.

See also : https://alternativeto.net/software/scrivener/?license=opensource
- Awesome, thanks for this! Looks promising, I'll check it out.
It has a pretty solid rating with cross over office. The problem with anything running in wine and interacting with the file system is that you see a meta file system that's different than your normal desktop system. It can be confusing for non-power users.
You can still use the old Scrivener for free, it's been floating around as an appimage: https://www.appimagehub.com/p/1262832/

I'm afraid I only own the modern Scrivener through the App Store, so I wouldn't be able to install it on my linux machine to test it #^-;#
It's been a few years but Scrivener used to be almost perfect under wine. According to the AppDB it still looks like a good chance of being a pleasant experience.
I can't speak to running Scrivener, but other folks have that covered, so I thought I'd weigh in on your "extra irrelevant info."

If it were me, I'd just give them Fedora. I set up my partner's computer with it and they were fine. They adapted to Gnome like it was nothing, and everything went smoothly.

If you're worried about the UI, you could use some Gnome Extensions to set it up like Windows (dash to dock, Arc Menu, etc.) or set up a KDE, Cinnamon, or XFCE spin to work like Windows.

Mint is an okay choice for beginners, true, but if you're setting it up for them and will be their tech guru, any significant advantage is kinda lost. You're the one who's going to set up the starting packages and the DE and all that, which nowadays is about 90% of the advantage Mint has over Fedora when it comes to beginners. Because of that, since you're tech support, you should just set up what you're most comfortable running support for.

That's just my opinion, though.
Totally unhelpful, but I love Scrivener.
Cant say for sure about Scrivener, but Bibisco has a native Linux version and it runs great on my MX 21.3 laptop. Working to convert my GF too, as we both write a lot and her laptop (same model as mine)gets hot for no reason with Win 10, not to mention its Windows...

I'll try dropping scrivener into Bottles as a test and report back, but I think a native app is a must for a full time writer.

EDIT: Scrivener doesn't just install in Bottles/Wine from what I can see. It failed for me, and I'm working on the dependencies, but as another commenter pointed out, the meta filesystem would likely be a deal-breaker for most on-tech-savvy users who need easy access to their files to share them.
Have you gotten them to try an alternative program? And if they REALLY need scrivener in particular, then you can try installing it in something called "bottles", though it will probably require a bit of setup to work correctly, though my personal advice to anyone who needs a windows only program that doesn't have a Linux port or alternative is to just... Use windows.
I tried Scrivener and it sucked - probably because it was on ipad, which sucks by default.
This is a joke, right? Like, this must be a satire making fun of stereotypical Linux users?
- Nope
  
  Dude I was giving you an out. You could've been all "haha just kidding" and saved some face.
  
  You shouldn't try to force someone into liking something just because you like it. That's not okay. Especially when they've politely and repeatedly expressed disinterest. If all they do is web browsing and writing then why would they even need Linux?
Just let them do what they want to do. They can live their life the way they choose.
- No, I'm putting a gun to their head and they will use Linux. /s
  
  I have gotten a few comments like these, not sure why some of you are getting the idea that this is a forced switch lol
Go with LMDE5. It will run faster the Windows has never ran on that hardware.

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