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GenZedong @lemmygrad.ml ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ @lemmygrad.ml

More hilarity over lemmy.ml, I gotta say libs do add a lot of entertainment value to the site

lemmy.ml WSJ: Ukraine could be forced to compromise. With support for the war against Russia waning in the U.S., the counteroffensive may define a new border. - Lemmy
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34 comments

  • Uuuuuuugh, “I don’t like this source” is easily one of my least favorite responses; the respondent may as well not even post since they’re ignoring the content anyway. Yes, the Wall Street Journal is puke, but nobody lies 100% of the time. That’s why you need to learn how to read critically.

    There has to be some sort of course that people can take to teach them how to properly scrutinize sources and distinguish between good reporting and rumourmongering, rather than trying to take shortcuts like that.

    And what’s up with all of the repetitive definitions and attempts to accuse you of being logically fallacious? It doesn’t make the replier look clever; it’s just extremely embarrassing.

    • Yes, the Wall Street Journal is puke, but nobody lies 100% of the time. That’s why you need to learn how to read critically.

      The point we post explicitly liberal sources is to make liberals think even for just a second. Turns out, it's still not enough.

      And what’s up with all of the repetitive definitions and attempts to accuse you of being logically fallacious?

      It's an old trolling technique, but this guy apparently didn't even understand how it's done.

      • I had a philosophy professor years ago who said that people who make catalogues of logical fallacies don't really understand logic. The true logician simply examines the argument, notes that it doesn't follow, and tells you why without using any jargon.

        Being on the internet has convinced me this guy was completely correct.

  • I am an incredibly sceptical person, i read dozens of news sources from countries all around the world, private business news, western state funded news, middle eastern, conservative, nationalist, socialist, im obsessed with learning the narratives around the world and how each society interacts with geopolitics. Never in my life have I found the west so full of shit on a subject, maybe aside for wmds, this conflict has been constantly and consistently lied about in every western news source. Its honestly remarkable, i regularly compare and contrast pro ukraine and pro russian sources down to military movements reports of casualties, wins losses, everything and 90% of the time the Russian information is accurate or damn close to accurate and the ukrainians are just outright lying.

    • I think this is the case because the west isn't used to fighting an enemy that can match their might.

      Think Iraq. Why bother with a narrative? There is a certainty of victory, no damage will come to the west, and iraqi media sure as hell isn't reaching our audiences. So just make up an excuse, invade, and let people forget it until the next current thing.

      But russia? It can fight back, it has political and economic leverage, it forces europe to suffer economically, it can inflict losses and shatter the image of nato equipment being unbeatable.

      So the media has to scramble to find reasons why we should keep fighting the russians, because our collective subconscious knows that fighting russia is a bad idea in general. The result of this scrambling is a lot of contrasting narratives that keep contradicting each other. Specially because russia itself has the power to counter western narratives and highlight the falsehoods.

      Remember Soledar for example? "the situation is difficult but we are holding" until russians started posting selfies from inside the town and it became clear that the UAF had been routed from there days ago.

      Or also when they kept claiming that reddit truesim that "attackers suffer 7 times more casualties" during the battle of Bakhmut an excuse to support the "we are grinding them down by losing" narrative. Now ukraine is attacking and people are asking "wait a second, we were told attackers take 7 times more losses, how is ukraine affording this?"

      In short, much like they are not used to fighting competent enemies on the ground, they are not used to fighting competent enemies in the media/internet arena. The result is a clusterfuck of lies covered by other lies as soon as they get found out.

  • "Cool argument, but this link debunks you. Checkmate."

    Edit: On a serious note, I think those two are breaking the main instance rule on spam.

    • They haven't made a single comment with any substance. I specifically and repeatedly tried to tease one out of them.

      • Yeah, but I don't think they're trying. This is a tactic frequently used on forums like 4chan where they just flood you with copy pasted nonsense to waste your time and discourage discussion. They know what they're doing and are acting like that intentionally, which is why I'm worried about this becoming normalized on lemmy.ml. Hopefully it dies out just like the Ukrainian counteroffensive.

  • Brooklynman is a misgendering reactionary who calls people snowflakes.

    The other one is probably his experimental debatebro bot. Only something like 10 lines that have 0 context relevance.

    Edit: Now he is using both accounts to doubledownvote everything (in sync)

    This is only one person

  • That was an exhausting read.

    Are you sure that this is not a bot? The BrooklynMan seems to do basic webscraping, then make arguments independant of the context of the article itself, then doubles down on their incoherent epistemology. is it that hard to automate?

  • And we're the ones who want to exist in self-affirming spaces? Liberals can't see the hypocrisy of decrying the far-right yet acting exactly like them.

    • They left reddit because of reddit bullshit and the first thing they want to do in this new space is create the exact same conditions that made reddit crap.

      This is colonialism all over again.

      • This is colonialism all over again.

        Yeah, I see a lot of bragging about "pushing tankies out of the space", the space that they founded, mind you. Not even content with just creating echo chambers to exist blindly and unquestioningly in (beehaw), they don't want other groups to have anything for themselves; they aren't satisfied getting a space for themselves until they can be sure their 'enemy' also has no space for themselves.

      • They aren't even shy about it (post about "tankies"):

  • Gotta agree. While I enjoy just vibing with the comrades here, having those clashes adds hilarity, memes and develops a culture that made eg GZD so unique.

    • It's amazing to see how liberals have no idea what to do when they end up outside their circle jerk. They aren't able to articulate any actual points, and they're used to just piling on anyone who says things they disagree with and not have to actually make an argument of their own. My favorite is the guy who keeps linking to wikipedia descriptions of logical fallacies without actually understanding them. 😂

      • Ukraine community:

        In the upper 50-70 posts there's like 3 your posts critical of the narration and every single other post is straight up either UA propaganda, western repost of UA propaganda or westoid rablings going even further than UA propaganda.

  • Always gotta love the faux-confidence the libs have of knowing they are always right, because they can dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with them as biased/a shill/propagandist.

    Heaven forbid somebody engage in an intellectually honest debate with somebody with a differing opinion. Even if somebody IS spouting propaganda, you don't become tainted by having a discussion with them; you might even convince a third party who is viewing.

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