How do folks bemoaning the lack of a global communist revolution in the 1910s reconcile that with the mass starvations that happened in the two largest communist countries?
How do folks bemoaning the lack of a global communist revolution in the 1910s reconcile that with the mass starvations that happened in the two largest communist countries?
Having large numbers of people starve to death seems like a pretty damning indictment of a system. But I dunno, maybe I'm overly attached to food?
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What do you hope to get from this post?
I'm morbidly curious. There are a lot of folks advocating communism who seem to lack any historical context. I'm curious as to whether it's sort of like lemmys instinctive downvoting of anything negative about biden/upvoting of anything negative of trump, or maybe it's genuine ignorance (I don't imagine tik tok communist enthusiasts talk all that much about the tens of millions dead) or if there is actually some sort of group rationalization.
There are a lot of folks advocating communism who seem to lack any historical context.
Do you have a historical context? Are you comparing the economic system of communism against capitalism? Or are you comparing nations who claimed to be communist but were actually authoritarian governments against democratic republics? Remember, North Korea calls themselves a Democratic Republic, names don't mean a lot.
Do we have any historical context for a democratic republic with a communist economic system?
Here's part of the Wikipedia definition of communism:
A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state (or nation state).
I'm unaware of a society like that.
Hey friend, don’t fall into propaganda yourself when talking against people like OP.
The DPRK is more democratic than you think. Kim Jong Un has less power over the DPRK than Biden over the US. Most people in their congress are unaffiliated to any parties (independents). They actually do have elections, but they work like in China, where you elect representatives to local councils, who vote for the representatives to higher councils and so on until the national council. It’s just a different system. It might not be perfect or even good, but it’s as authoritarian as any other nation with a state in the world.
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Have you actually read anything on how the government works in the DPRK? Do you know how their elections work?
Or all you know are CIA propaganda talking points from Radio Free Asia, about how there is a “forced crying day”, or how you are forbidden from having the same haircut as Kim Jong Un, or that you are actually obligated to cut your hair just like him etc. etc..?
Is it so hard to believe what is “common knowledge” about the DPRK is mostly bullshit?
Have you actually read anything on how the government works in the DPRK? Do you know how their elections work?
Have you read anything at all about the DPRK?
Or all you know are CIA propaganda talking points from Radio Free Asia, about how there is a “forced crying day”, or how you are forbidden from having the same haircut as Kim Jong Un, or that you are actually obligated to cut your hair just like him etc. etc..?
Every kernel of information about North Korea is CIA propaganda? Is the CIA that competent?
But to answer your question, I don't know any of those things. I do know that there is no freedom of movement, no open Internet access, and laws against accessing external media. You know, the way free societies do.
Is it so hard to believe what is “common knowledge” about the DPRK is mostly bullshit?
Yes! Every rank of functioning democracies has North Korea at the bottom, not necessarily last, but never far from it. They are an authoritarian regime. Everything you're saying is ludicrously misguided.
I have read plenty.
And yes, a lot, the vast majority, of what you read in the west about the DPRK is CIA propaganda. The CIA has many media groups and think tanks around Asia to spew propaganda agains the “enemies” of the US. Just search for the sources for the articles, and you’ll see places like Radio Free Asia, which is a literal CIA front.
And there is no freedom of movement? In what way? The border with China is open, there are many many North Koreans living and working in China.
They don’t have access to western media, yes, that spews virulent propaganda such as the examples I gave before, which are literal news stories from the west.
You think a country should allow in straight up propaganda from countries that want to destroy them? Does that make any sense?
Like you can go there! It’s not that hard! You can see how people live, you can talk to them. Unless you truly believe North Koreans are all absolutely brainwashed automatons with no individual thoughts, who would you believe more? The people of North Korea or journalists and intelligence agents from the US and other Five Eyes countries?
And most of those “democracy” lists are absolutely bullshit! The US is always at the top, and it’s one of the least democratic countries in the world. You vote for a president, but actually elect delegates who don’t need to vote for your choice at all. The government gerrymanders and creates laws that impede minorities and poor people from voting. Every research about it shows the government represents the will of a minority of like 5% of voters.
Why do you think that is? Most of the organisations that make those lists are just think tanks linked to the American Empire and the neoliberal project.
And why are you being so defensive about the idea North Korea might not be the devil or hell on earth? Why would that be so bad? Why do you have to so aggressively defend the talking points of the Empire against one of the few nations on Earth it doesn’t control..?
They don’t have access to western media... You think a country should allow in straight up propaganda from countries that want to destroy them? Does that make any sense?
Yes, it's called freedom, and no one is trying to destroy them.
And most of those “democracy” lists are absolutely bullshit! The US is always at the top, and it’s one of the least democratic countries in the world.
It's amazing how everything that doesn't agree with you is bullshit or CIA propaganda. I have never seen the US at the top of any of those lists. The two I quickly pulled up had the US at 29th and 36th. Congratulations on consistently being wrong and spewing un-informed nonsense.
And why are you being so defensive about the idea North Korea might not be the devil or hell on earth?
I never said either of those. In fact, what I said was that they have democratic republic in their name but that they are objectively authoritarian. You're making statements that are false and incredibly dishonest. The DPRK is not a democracy, it is an incredibly repressive authoritarian state. Why are you so intent on giving cover to authoritarian despots?
Ok what evidence do you have the DPRK is not a democracy and it’s more authoritarian than any other state on Earth?
You keep just repeating propaganda talking points, whether you’re aware or not. Give me actual evidence to your beliefs.
No, “most democratic country” lists don’t count…