Use work laptop as personal device by dual booting on a separate internal drive?
Use work laptop as personal device by dual booting on a separate internal drive?
I currently have a Dell laptop that runs Windows for work. I use an external SSD via the Thunderbolt port to boot Linux allowing me to use the laptop as a personal device on a completely separate drive. All I have to do is F12 at boot, then select boot from USB drive.
However, this laptop is only using 1 of the 2 internal M.2 ports. Can I install Linux on a 2nd M.2 drive? I would want the laptop to normally boot Windows without a trace of the second option unless the drive is specified from the BIOS boot options.
Will this cause any issues with Windows? Will I be messing anything up? For the external drive setup, I installed Linux on a different computer, then transferred the SSD to the external drive. Can I do the same for the M.2 SSD – install Linux on my PC, then transfer that drive to the laptop?
Any thoughts or comments are welcome.
Edit: Thank you everyone! This was a great discussion with a lot of great and thoughtful responses. I really appreciate the replies and all the valuable information and opinions given here.
Forget the technical details. I work in a corporate security department and if yours finds out what you're doing there's high odds they would absolutely hate it. I mean it likely isn't an issue for org security (assuming they're using bitlocker appropriately etc.) But not everyone over security is so rational and there are edge case attacks which may even trouble more sensible individuals. Either get permission, expect to do this in secret, or better yet just don't.
Not to mention you really can't hide that other drive from windows, and I'm sure a lot of the security tools would start screaming about new storage added when not expected. Data Loss Prevention is a big deal and random storage showing up doesn't often mean the user has good things planned.
Exactly. This is a terrible idea. I'm fairly certain that anyone caught doing this would be immediately fired at some companies.
Yeah... I really don't see the motives to do this either. Possibly:
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I guess if you're traveling and you have to bring 2 laptops.
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Or you can't afford a PC with the same specs as your work laptop.
Both of those situations don't warrant booting work laptop to external personal HD though.
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I mean it likely isn’t an issue for org security (assuming they’re using bitlocker appropriately etc.)
Data loss/leak prevention would vehemently disagree. It's a potential exfiltration point, especially if the org is blocking USB writes.
Networking might have a thing or two to say about it as well, as it is essentially an untrusted setup on company networks
(assuming they're using bitlocker appropriately etc.)
Stop using work devices for personal business
Yes, and especially don't fuck with the hardware or core boot/OS configuration. That'd the kind of stuff that can get you fired in most orgs I've been in.
Is Linux likely to mess up the stuff in Windows: probably not? It does require you to do likely-unauthorized things to the device to install, including potentially circumventing some controls required in the work device.
Whether it causes issue or not, circumventing those policies or controls is not going to land well if you get caught at it.
Nah, it's just like shitting on work hours
Your point is valid but the IT department isn't tracking your shits
Or maybe they are if you work for amazon
Like disassembling the sink and shitting down the pipe maybe
Sure, people should not use their work computer for personal use.
However, I would say the majority of people absolutely do use it for occasional personal use. Checking your personal email at work? Googling driving directions to the dentist? Using the pdf editor to fill out a form? Searching for a flight during your lunch break? I would say everyone I see at work does this, and I would bet that when they take their laptop home they would not hesitate to boot it up for personal use. And the people working remotely I would wager use it even more.
I'm not saying it's right, but I do think using a completely separate SSD and OS is way more responsible from a security perspective.
There is a difference between using software on a work computer for private purposes and installing another OS on a work computer, don't you think?
If you have a job that gave you a computer you can probably afford to go buy your own.
Depending on the org this is a fireable offense, and at the very least highly suspect, so just be aware.
and I would bet that when they take their laptop home they would not hesitate to boot it up for personal use. And the people working remotely I would wager use it even more.
Are you willing to bet your job or career on this? If so, proceed. Otherwise, I would heed the multiple warnings given in this thread. But then again, you might just be one of those fuck around and find out types. If so, be sure and drop in here and let us know how well it went.
There's a difference between using a web browser to access certain websites, which still use the sandboxing and safe environment that the company has set up, and running your own OS which has unrestricted hardware access to everything.
IT likely knows that people will use their laptops for personal use, but probably trust that browsers are good enough at sandboxing that is not a concern. They can also tweak settings in whatever Windows management thingie they're using to ensure that everything is up to date and all the programs you are running are safe.
However, running your own OS is very different. They can't trust the browser sandbox or OS any more. They can't trust that you'll only run safe software. They can't trust that you'll not install malware that will infect firmware or your Windows install (which will steal company secrets).
If I were running an IT department I'd 100% lock down the efi and require a password. I'd try to make it as frictionless as possible if you wanted a certain distro for work reasons, but ultimately I'd like to know what's going on.
Just because people do it doesn't mean you should.
Using a separate SSD and OS might work fine for protecting your data from company monitoring software, but it doesn't protect company data from your rogue OS. If your company has a dedicated security team, your head will roll when they find out you put the company at risk. And if they don't, you better hope IT is either apathetic or incompetent.
It's not worth the risk of losing your job for being a liability. They might not be able to tell future employers why you are no longer employed with them, but "we would not hire {you} again if given the opportunity" speaks for itself.
Just buy a shitty laptop and use that.
I feel like 10-15 yrs ago, you’d be absolutely right here, but not now. Everyone I know, even less technical folks, keep it separate simply because they do that stuff on their phone instead.
Simple question: what would your employer say if you asked them?
My contract has a standard "no using company computers for personal business" clause. However I feel entirely confident that my employer doesn't mind me using it to do personal errands using the web browser (on my own time). And I know they have no problem with me using Zoom or Teams to join meetings for non-work things in the evening. How do I know this? Because I asked them...
I've never asked them "can I install a new hard drive in my laptop, install an OS I downloaded off the internet, and boot into that OS to do things which I'd rather you not be able to track like you could on the main OS". But I'm completely confident I'd know what the answer would be if I did ask.
If you think installing a new SSD etc. is acceptable, ask them. If you're not asking them because you're worried they'd say "no", then don't do it.
Try asking them instead if you can use your laptop to look up directions to the dentist on Google Maps. See if you get the same answer.
Sure, people should not use their work computer for personal use.
This isn't great. But what you're wanting to do will get you fired.
Danger Will Robinson! Do NOT fuck with company hardware!
You are going to potentially set off a shit ton of alarm bells, and risk your job, by even attempting this.
First of all, almost all such devices come with a BIOS lock. You'd need to get the password before you could even begin this (again, do not do it!)
Secondly, they'll be able to tell something is up from the foreign UEFI entries.
Thirdly, if that doesn't expose you, Intel IME will. Doesn't matter what operating system you're running.
And you're going to create some royal fucking headaches for a lot of people in your company.
Let's start with security. Remember when I said you'll set off alarm bells? Well, I mean some mother fucking alarm bells. Security will have a god damn aneurysm over this, and they will believe you may be doing this to bypass security, possibly for nefarious reasons. A foreign hard drive with its own OS looks shady as shit.
Then there's the regular tech people. You're going to cause various headaches for them too. Not least because under many service agreements, the company itself may not be authorised to open up the workstations themselves. Many workplaces rent their workstations nowadays, and it is not uncommon to see this language in their SLAs.
Then there's the fact that the OS image on the original drive potentially cannot be trusted any more, so they have to wipe the fucker clean and do a fresh image install.
TL;DR, You are giving your company several solid reasons to fire you for cause by doing this.
He already boots linux via USB drive on it, I guess the difference to booting from PCI/M.2 drive would not be that different, in terms of security, or did I miss something?
The security implication from a USB boot are probably more severe but also more the fault of the people configuring your work machine. It is expected that people will plug things like pen drives in, to a degree. It is your job to block it with configurations.
The real problem is that once you start adding or removing internal hardware, that configuration no longer stays a trusted one because they've meddled with the components.
On top of all that, most hitting contacts I've seen contain language saying that if you use company resources to make a thing, that thing, the company owns that thing. Seems likely that in addition to firing they could compel you to turn over the drive and wipe it.
If I even tried to plug a USB into my laptop security would be down on top of me like a ton of the proverbial .... the same way that the only true way to be secure is don't plug into the internet the only way not to piss off corporate is don't f*ck with their stuff.
I was thinking about the technical details and didn't stop to consider the implications, nice answer.
Also unexpected lost in space reference.
I have a recommendation, buy a personal laptop that isn’t tied to your company.
You shouldn’t do this. Why would you do this
Want to elaborate on why it's such a bad idea? I'm curious now
Provided the user doesn't put their windows password in, then things should not be accessed.
This likely breaks your company's terms of use. This can definitely lead to termination, especially since the other OS would likely not be monitor-able by them (opening them up to potential liability, along with the myriad of other issues)
IDK about other places, but the document we make our users sign make it clear that modifying the internal hardware is a fireable offense.
The laptop isn’t yours, use a personal device for personal stuff, and work device for work only.
apparently you are unaware of how much monitoring goes on in corporate IT. you're lucky they haven't already found the mac address yet booted with a different os, or maybe they're already onto you.
I would stop doing what you're doing immediately and hope it's not too lateThe answer here is very simple. Your employer will find out what you're doing.
So obviously you should be asking them, if anyone. Not us Lemmings.
I had a work laptop and did the "external USB" thing. One day, at work, I'm messing with my Linux on a public wifi, having unplugged from the corporate LAN.
A co-worker walks by, sees the Network cord unplugged, plugs it in. I am oblivious in the washroom.
Corporate security got to my laptop before I did.
I didn't get fired.
I don't work there anymore, though.
Yeah, this is just a terrible idea. The risk is far greater than any potential reward you might be getting.
Any thoughts or comments are welcome
If this is a corporate decide your cyber security team have really dropped the ball by enabling you to change the boot order.
DO NOT install a second M.2
Use the external drive
If the internal drive is in there, you could be asked at work to turn it in. It is not a good look to ask to remove an internal drive.
This is a great point. The laptop does have a quick access panel for the M.2 drive, but a screwdriver would still be required to remove the screw holding the drive in place.
I understand the rationale behind you doing this, I've done it myself.
Your company sends you abroad for a week or two. You want to access your Netflix account but don't want to do it on the company computer. On the other hand you don't want to carry two laptops with you.
As others have said, tampering company hardware can get you in trouble with the IT department, and it's enough to get you fired in some cases.
If you value your job get permission to do it or get yourself a tablet.
The big takeaway is that you do not own this computer. It is not yours, it is being lent to them for a very specific purpose. And what you want to do, hell what you're already doing, is way outside of that purpose.
How would you feel if you lent a friend your conputer to check their email and found out they had bypassed a lot of your security mechanisms (passwords) to set up their own admin account?
What about when you begrudgingly get a MFA app on your personal phone because your employer's too cheap to shell out for a yubikey or hardware token? How would you feel if their app also rooted your phone just for shits and giggles?
What you're proposing is not only dangerous to your career, it's also potentially illegal. And also just downright unethical.
This is just a bad idea in general.
IT will ask you the next day what you did to thier computer.
From a technical perspective I'm curious - how would they know a drive has been added without physically inspecting the laptop?
Intel IME can snitch on this kind of thing. Completely independent of the OS too.
CPU/BIOS-level system management engines such as Intel IME/vPro or AMD Secure Technology give device access to IT even if the OS is replaced or the system is powered off.
If your IT staff isn't utilizing that technology, then when you boot into a corporate-managed OS, they can see any hardware that is currently connected to the system.
If they're not doing any monitoring at all, you're fine (but the viability of the business is in question). If they're doing OS-level monitoring, stick with the USB thing and leave it unplugged when booted into the corporate OS. If they're doing CPU-level monitoring, you're already likely flagged.
If you're unsure how much monitoring they're doing, attempting to find out may also be a resume-generating event (RGE). Cheers, and good luck!
I'm glad you asked, people provided some great answers.
Good rule of thumb is just don't mess with company property at all, cuz they'll know. For example I simply turned a wall TV on one weekend so my skeleton crew had something to do, and I was asked why a few days later. If it's electronic they can track it.
If the second internal ssd is there when windows boots, it will leave a trace. IMHO booting off the external drive is the best option if you want it to leave no trace on the windows partitions.
Also, it's possible any booted device will leave a trace in the bios or uefi boot logs, which your corporation may have configured to ship to their audit logs or something similar.
Thanks for the information. And good point - I will check to see if there's any logs in the BIOS. Is there any way to know if boot logs are being sent? Is that a BIOS setting, or something that would be configured in Windows?
I'm not familiar with windows so I don't know exactly how to tell if the logs are being sent to a central log store. My assumption about how it would work is windows would have a capability that reads the UEFI boot logs and sends them with other windows system logs to a central log store. This feature is almost certainly built into windows. You may be able to open up a log inspection tool of some sort and search them. I'm really just guessing about these details from first principles though.
You can buy a used ThinkPad T480 for like $75 on ebay. A lot cheaper than having to explain your shenanigans to Maude from HR.
Honestly, this is good advice. It's much better to keep personal computer activity on a personal device, whether that's on a ThinkPad or anything else.
I would get a second device
I have to second the get your own laptop.
The company I work for has software that does hardware / software inventory regularly. So additional hardware added can and will show up.
Also, when hired we are told in in uncertain terms that tampering with the laptop can and will be grounds for termination.
Booting off of an external drive is ill advised as many work laptops have restrictions to the USB/thunderbolt ports as well as modifying bios settings.Lastly, using corporate hardware (be it a cell phone, or a laptop) should never be used for personal use. It's a good way to lose your job. I know more than one person in my career that lost their job either from texts sent from a work cell phone, or using their work computer for personal things. It's just not worth it.
You're better off doing it the current way. Or better still just get one for yourself if you use it that much.
I’ve seen many people fired for doing less on a work laptop. Do not modify the physical machine. I’m surprised they don’t have USB locked off already. I’d get a personal machine.
This was my first thought as well.
Be happy you can boot from a USB. Do NOT fuck with the machine unless you want to look for another job.
Looking at the replies I'm happy I line in Germany where none of this is legal without signing a document that explains in detail how exactly you are surveiled.
None of these answers talk about watching you or your actions, only the device and the network.
Damn my laptop has secure boot and extra on top , I believe the usb ports are physically disabled.
I assume everything is watched on what I'm doing. Can't remember the wording but i can't do shit without getting in a heap of trouble.
Browser add-ons are like a 2 week process to get approved
In most cases, work laptops have software(s) installed to automatically keep track of these activities, and flag it to security team of your organization. At that point, it will either lead to a formal warning to you, or termination/forced resignation.
From organization point of view, this is to avoid any accidental (or intentional) leak of confidential data, and/or accidentally (or intentionally) infecting your (work) system with malware/ransomware.
The latter had happened in one of my previous organizations, and the person responsible was terminated from job immediately.
I work in IT and that's what I do lol
As many companies now use Bitlocker encryption, you’ll probably Bitlock your work partition by trying to install the second drive internally. IF YOU MUST boot to another drive, keep it external. And DO NOT unlock or mount your work partition in your personal OS. Really, though, you shouldn’t do this at all.
For anyone wondering about the security issues caused by this, even if the windows partition is encrypted, it's still possible to get secrets from the Windows install.
If you have root access to a Linux machine, you can easily replace the Windows kernel loader with one that looks just like Windows, but does nothing other than steal your encryption password on login/boot.
Secure Boot/TPM would protect against this, but Linux users (especially those that are more lax about security) tend to disable it as part of installing Linux.
🙃
How badly do you need your job?
I knew someone who did this but swapped out the physical hard drive each time. I wouldn't dual boot because then it's much more obvious to IT what you've done.
This is only realistically feasible though if the hard drive is easily accessible. If it's something like a Mac or soldered in dual booting is your only choice. As others have said, this could get you in a lot of trouble with your company. Check the docs you've signed
As many companies now use Bitlocker encryption, you’ll probably Bitlock your work partition by trying to install the second drive.
I think this is a good idea. You may want to use a different MAC on Linux, true.
Also only use the personal drive at home if you fear being spied on.
The chance that your company embeds spyware in the BIOS is like 0%. If you can press F12, Windows is off and you will not be spied on.
Otherwise make sure to do real reboots and use this shutdown command to really turn off windows, as otherwise it hibernates only.