South Africa's genocide case against Israel sets up a high-stakes legal battle at the UN's top court
South Africa's genocide case against Israel sets up a high-stakes legal battle at the UN's top court
South Africa has launched a case at the United Nations’ top court alleging that Israel’s military campaign in Gaza amounts to genocide.
Link to the summary of findings submitted by South Africa: https://apnews.com/article/un-court-south-africa-israel-gaza-genocide-71be2ce7f09bfee05a7cae26689ee262
South Africa’s 84-page filing says Israel’s actions “are genocidal in character because they are intended to bring about the destruction of a substantial part” of the Palestinians in Gaza.
It asks the ICJ, also known as the world court, for a series of legally binding rulings. It wants the court to declare that Israel “has breached and continues to breach its obligations under the Genocide Convention,” and to order Israel to cease hostilities in Gaza that could amount to breaches of the convention, to offer reparations, and to provide for reconstruction of what it’s destroyed in Gaza.
I would really advise everyone to read (or at least skim) South Africa's application to the ICJ for the genocide charges. It goes incredibly hard with specifics on quotes, actions, and just generally everything that clearly showcases the purposeful and active results of Netanyahu's government. They make it quite clear that nothing of what's happening or has happened was an accident and is being done without thinking or consideration.
And they bring all the references needed to back up their statements.
The opening part of the document which reads like, geeze Oct 7th was terrible, but nevermind, and lets get to prosecuting Israel is super cringe!
Before the Serbs started the genocide of Bosnians, they were the subject of atrocious attacks by Bosnians. Look up the Green Berets or Salon Mahmuljin. The Serbs were also carrying the memory of the Ustasha genocide against them during WW2. They had a victim mentality, they felt their national survival was at stake and they had been brutally attacked. They then committed genocide.
The atrocities of October 7 have (tragically!) been eclipsed by the genocidal campaign that has followed them.
See also this: https://youtu.be/T8qGubNO_c0?si=qeZTSxx5WhqPr1vp
🔻
I've been watching the media and our politicians both-sides the issue in ways that seem contrived to ensure that the occupation and genocide will continue without interference by anyone in a position to do anything about it, especially my own elected representatives and officials.
Reading South Africa's Application instituting proceedings in the World Court document myself reminded me how thirsty I've been to hear from anyone serious about the matter. It's very human-readable, cogent even- well worth the read.
Biden has literally spent 50 years telling Israels government he'll always support them no matter what, but they need to be careful before normal citizens call them out for their actions.
Israel has never listened to Biden, but this is one promise I don't think he'll ever break.
Dude openly calls himself a zionist, he's with them 100%.
Cool and good that we get to choose him or death again.
For some reason the download fails for me every time 🤔
Edit: but sure enough it worked in Chrome 👿
The U.S. should also be named in these charges.
Just a fun excerpt from page From page 64 of the document.
Israeli Army reservist “motivational speech”: On 11 October 2023, 95-year old Israeli army reservist Ezra Yachin — a veteran of the Deir Yassin massacre during the 1948 Nakba — reportedly called up for reserve duty to “boost morale” amongst Israeli troops ahead of the ground invasion, was broadcast on social media inciting other soldiers to genocide as follows, while being driven around in an Israeli army vehicle, dressed in Israeli army fatigues:
“Be triumphant and finish them off and don’t leave anyone behind. Erase the memory of them. Erase them, their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live. . . Every Jew with a weapon should go out and kill them. If you have an Arab neighbour, don't wait, go to his home and shoot him . . . We want to invade, not like before, we want to enter and destroy what’s in front of us, and destroy houses, then destroy the one after it. With all of our forces, complete destruction, enter and destroy. As you can see, we will witness things we’ve never dreamed of. Let them drop bombs on them and erase them.”
This is the best summary I could come up with:
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — South Africa has launched a case at the United Nations’ top court alleging that Israel’s military campaign in Gaza amounts to genocide.
Eylon Levy, an official in the Israeli prime minister’s office, on Tuesday accused South Africa of “giving political and legal cover” to the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas that triggered Israel’s campaign.
Among them are Israel’s role in promoting the original genocide convention after the Holocaust and its belief that “we have a strong case.” He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was discussing behind-the-scenes deliberations.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed to press ahead with the war until Hamas is crushed and the more than 100 hostages still held by the militant group in Gaza are freed.
South Africa’s filing includes a request for the court to urgently issue legally binding interim orders for Israel to “immediately suspend its military operations in and against Gaza.”
The International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda convicted a string of leaders involved in the African nation’s 1994 genocide when some 800,000 people, mainly ethnic Tutsis, were slaughtered.
The original article contains 1,067 words, the summary contains 182 words. Saved 83%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
good bot 😊
It wants the court to declare that Israel “has breached and continues to breach its obligations under the Genocide Convention,” and to order Israel to cease hostilities in Gaza that could amount to breaches of the convention, to offer reparations, and to provide for reconstruction of what it’s destroyed in Gaza.
What can they do to enforce this? Because if this is toothless, the symbolism of it is fine, but I'd prefer something that would actually make a difference.
The UN is entirely powerless against the US's allies because the US has absolute veto power in all UN resolutions and will never let anyone defy Israel.
'Convention on the prevention and punishment of genocide, will take years to resolve.'
How is that convention 'preventing' anything happening at all.
But why South Africa?
Remember these are people who know what it's like to go through apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
South Africa today is largely governed by the people who fought and won against apartheid, so it's understandable that they feel a level of solidarity with the people of Palestine.
(in this context I'm choosing to gloss over the real and present issues with the ANC, because they are not relevant to Israel's genocide)
They seem to be world leaders on Human Rights seeing nobody else dares to do this.
Half circle in 80 years, eh?
There has never been anything on the scale of Israel's apartheid. There have been things like it that are absolutely abhorrent, like South African Apartheid and it's inspiration, Jim Crow. But there has never been such a widespread, indiscriminate, long term genocidal apartheid.
To be clear, you're saying south Africas Apartheid which codified a racial hierarchy into law and nazi Germanys Apartheid if you want to call it that which put people in camps and slaughtering them industrially is less bad than Israel's military occupation of Gaza? Jesus, of all the takes one could have, that's definitely one of them..
Isn't that a good thing though? You almost sound like you despise people learning from their mistakes
Thr Jewish people were subject to genocidal practices 80 years ago.
A half circle is a 180.
Being that it is Jewish people now doing it to others. And other parts of the world trying to stop them (SA).
With that in mind, your comment implies the Israel government is committing genocide first before genocide can be committed on them again, and that this is good and that I'm against it which is bad.
I think you've not understood before commenting.
It’s one thing to do the trendy Israel bashing with alt-left anti-Israel kids on a forum to shout genocide and be sloppy with the term while they rage nonsensically over propaganda for which they’ve fallen.
It’s an entirely different thing for a failed state like South Africa to try to prove a factual and meaningful case based on actual law and legal definitions. Not a chance in hell this will amount to anything.
They’ll even have to establish that Gaza residents are “Palestinians”. The world had to make a special definition of refugee, just to call everyone in Gaza and the West Bank a refugee. If you used the UNHRC standard (which is applied to EVERYONE else worldwide, then there’d be a few hundred thousand at best, and millions lose their status as refugees.
The whole identification of Palestinians as a nationality could be explored in the courts, if this were taken seriously. Since pre-1908 the Ottoman empire and people in Palestine were more about tribal and family identity. Plus, for genocide, mabey you have to write off the Palestinan Jews then and say they don’t count, b/c really we mean just the Arab Palestinans…. blah blah. I’m not litigating it, I’m pointing out this is stuff easy to ignore in a hate frenzy on Lemmy, but that doesn’t get it ignored in courts.
At an even lower level, there is no Palestine. It’s not a state, in a legal sense, that causes legal problems. I mean, I guess it’s why you have what reads like the start of a bad joke “South Africa brings a genocide case to the ICJ”… with them as proxy for the people who want a state and believe they have standing? Who knows?
I’m curious who would even represent the Palestinians in court at this point? Hamas, their elected terrorist government? Or Abbas who has over 90% that wants him to resign? And then you have the issue that Abbas doesn’t run jack shit in Gaza, Hamas does, and he is barely holding onto his power even in the West Bank, since most Palestinians favor Hamas.
Things like that are going to matter, in a real court, it’s not just a Lemmy Israel bashing circle jerk.
And all of that is before you get into actually debating the genuine issues, which will be things like do the war-crimes of Hamas such as co-location make normally prohibited targets legal? Because a huge part of the whole genocide claim relies on the court agreeing that if you hide in hospitals and schools you shouldn’t be attacked, no matter what actions you took outside of those or coordinate from within them. And since co-location is already a war crime, that will be an interesting thing to watch argued.
And all of that is before you get into actually trying to prove the war crimes. At the ICJ, “I saw this on a white nationalist blog!” won’t cut it, not like here in Lemmy World News.
The whole thing just seems mostly like propaganda stunt designed to get Isreal’s haters excited and circle jerking. Which as a propaganda move—is, I think, rock solid. Almost as good as getting people to watch Hamas’ official television and publications… er… I mean Al Jazeera.
That’s a lot of words to say you blindly support Israel.
I’d love to see Bibi and numerous members of Likud prosecuted for war crimes. Just as I’d love to see Hamas and it’s many war criminals prosecuted for their crimes as well. I think you’re confusing the fact that I believe Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself with blind support. It’s not the same thing.
I do not approve of pre-Oct Israeli war crimes like the endless collective punishment. Even when there were tens of thousands of war crimes… er… rockets being shot at their citizens by the government of Gaza.
But I’m definitely hard pressed to find the answer on what to do among all the anti-israel frenzy on Lemmy. All anyone here has is to say “oh it,s okay, just ignore the oct attack, let Israel take it on the chin, they’re stronger and richer.”
I’d love to see a solution, do you know of one? B/c if Israel just stops like it’s trendy to demand, then Hamas will regroup and go again as they have for decades.
October 7th has been their greatest marketing of all time. They’re at like 75% support for the Oct 7th attacks, have majority support in Gaza and West Bank. They’re so popular with all the bloodshed they’ve caused that Abbas is going to lose his office. There’s no reason for Hamas to do anything other than continue to seek their publicly stated goal of the destruction of Israel, ever.
EDIT: Also yes, the charge of genocide is fucking stupid. It belittles and demeans the term and the lose nature with which it’s thrown about around here is extremely offensive.
Saying there are no Palestinians is up there with Putin saying there are no Ukrainians. This is genocidal hate speech. Fuck you. Fuck you, profoundly.
There was a Palestine. It no longer exists.
There were Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Arabs. Now, they live in Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Chile, Saudi Arabia, and so on. There is no country called Palestine anymore.
Facts offending you are funny, though, as is your profanity laden tantrum.
If you want a bigger breakdown, here is a list of where the Palestinian Arabs went. I assume you only care about the Palestinian Arabs?
It’s one thing to do […] Israel bashing […] on a forum […]
It’s an entirely different thing […] to try to prove a factual and meaningful case based on actual law and legal definitions.
And that's exactly why I think what SA does is an important thing to do. Besides, what does the condition of SA's state have to do with the legitimacy of this?
Edit: it's SA, not SAR
It doesn't do that. What you see is a giant dopamine hit to your confirmation bias. And the motivation of a bad actor attempting to abuse the courbts for political reasons is important.
Like I said, you're the target audience, it's just to rial up all the alt-left and get em circlejerking the upvotes on Lemmy and radicalized further the gullible.
you are a genocide denier, you cannot be reasoned with. as for anyone else that might even slightly agree with this person i recommend you to watch this video Gaza: A Clear Case of Genocide which is a legal analysis based on the internationally recognized definition of genocide and case law.
this videos answers whether or not actions of Hamas are relevant (it's not), do palestinians in gaza constitute whole or a part of a group (they do), whether or not israeli leaders have genocidal intent (which can be established based on repeated and systematic conduct and war crimes as well as countless statements and revealed plans), and if their acts are covered under the genocide convention (they are).
if you want to "get into actually debating the genuine issue" here you are. the reason i say you cannot be reasoned with is that your response is simply the stupidest thing i have read in a while. when someone cannot even concede that palestinians in gaza are in fact part of a group, they are simply not arguing with good faith, or even bad faith, they are not even arguing just putting their head in the sand and shitting as loudly as possible on the other end in hopes of silencing others.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Gaza: A Clear Case of Genocide
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