Facebook turns over mother and daughter’s chat history to police resulting in abortion charges
Facebook turns over mother and daughter’s chat history to police resulting in abortion charges
A stark example of how digital footprints will be utilized in a post-Roe America
The article is from Aug 10, 2022 but remains relevant
Honestly, it does not look like Facebook did something wrong when you read the article. A pregnant woman used a medicine to trigger a miscarriage, then she and her mother got rid of the body. Police knew that they've discussed this in Facebook messenger. They contacted Facebook and received chat messages. Then police used those messages to incriminate women according to existing law. The only problem here is that a woman could go to an abortion clinic and do it properly and legally if not for obnoxious laws in some states. But that's a completely different issue
It is not a different issue. It is an issue of basic human rights.
A woman's right to agency over her body is an unalienable human right. The existing laws violate her human right.
Then police used those messages to incriminate women according to existing law.
"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's antireligious laws. " - Martin Luther King, Jr. in "Letter from Birmingham Jail" (1963)
it does not look like Facebook did something wrong
Illegal. You mean to say it doesn't look like Facebook did something illegal. It's undeniable (unless you hate women) that Facebook did something wrong in helping a fascist state oppress women.
Illegality and morality are not the same.
It would also be literally illegal for Facebook to have not done this. They were given a legally binding warrant.
If you honestly would personally go to jail rather than comply with a warrant, that speaks pretty highly to your credit, but I don't think most people would find Facebook to be particularly culpable here. Facebook Messenger does actually offer an encrypted messaging service that, to my knowledge, has never been turned over to law enforcement because it is technically impossible for them to do that. That isn't the default setting though, and it's unfortunate that the people involved here weren't aware of it.
Just to be very clear, these laws are reprehensible. However, my anger is largely reserved for the politicians and voters responsible for them. It's a pretty big ask to demand someone personally risk jail time by refusing to comply with a valid warrant.
Why do so many people find it so hard to understand the position of anti-abortionists and invent a fantasy about misogynist fascists?
To them fetuses are babies (which is correct at some point before birth, when is another debate) and therefore subjects of rights, so from their position they are defending a much greater right, the right to life. Essentially, from their perspective they are defending human rights, is it that hard for you to empathize with that?
It's undeniable (unless you hate women)
Oh yep, you seem to have a flexible mentality, open to debate and not demonizing others, the opposite of what fascists typically do.
Regardless of the politics surrounding abortion, Facebook chat never claims to be encrypted nor secure. Users should be aware that their chats are available in this capacity and should also be aware that platforms like Signal exist which are encrypted and secure.
Facebook Messenger does actually offer an end-to-end encrypted service, though it's not the default setting.
They're exploiting the fact people don't know how it works. They see "https", they think cops can't see anything
Except it is encrypted, and pretty secure. That's not really related to the issue. Facebook complied with a subpoena as they are legally required to do so. Signal would have to do the same. The only difference there is that Signal doesn't retain decryption keys for your data so subpoenaing them would be pretty pointless except to prove that some conversation happened.
The takeaway from this article, IMHO, isn't "Facebook did something terrible" so much as "when you live in a world where the government is terrible, services which compromise your privacy can be exploited against you." It no longer becomes a matter of "advertisers have access to my intimate details" but "people with the power to jail me unjustly have access to my intimate details."
I mean, it's reprehensible for Facebook to have done that, but we kind of never expected them to be the good guys. It's more "the compromise of our basic privacy is more dangerous than you might have thought when it was just being used to advertise to us."
Uh, did you miss this part?
"Since the reversal of Roe, Facebook’s parent company Meta and other Big Tech companies have made lofty promises about defending access to reproductive healthcare,” Caitlin Seeley George, managing director of nonprofit Fight for our Future, said in a statement. “At the same time, these companies’ hypocritical surveillance practices make them complicit in the criminalization of people seeking, facilitating, and providing abortions.”
legal != right
Read this somewhere "If something is banned in EU it likely violates human rights, but if something is banned in a republican state it probably is a human right."
:(
This is why I push my family to use my matrix server.
She had plenty of time to have an abortion but waited until the third trimester to conspire with her mother to secretly force a stillbirth and bury the body without telling anyone. Yeah, that's fucked. I'm pro-choice and hate police spying but what they did was illegal and disturbing and they should be charged.
People will treat her as a victim, but she had a lot of options.
She could have not had sex, she could have used contraception, had an abortion elsewhere, had an illegal abortion before the fetus could be considered a baby, or simply given it up for adoption using the many resources available to do so. Mothers (unlike fathers, cough) have a myriad of opportunities to not take responsibility, from start to finish.
She chose the worst way to deal with this, and since this is encompassed in the politics on abortion, people support this horrible act regardless of anything else.
Yet another reason to have Facebook's networks blocked on every device I own.
:)
Christo-fascism is coming for you too. Premarital sex, masturbation, gay sex/relationships. They'll use the internet to hunt down anyone they can. As soon as they finish dismantling democracy.
Since these people act in aggressive defiance of "Christ's" teaching, I refer to them X-tians - or Xto-fascists. They don't deserve to be associated with someone that openly opposed religious and conservative leaders for hypocrisy, gatekeeping, and oppression.
I prefer the traditional phrasing of "wolves in sheep's clothing" (which comes straight from Jesus, himself).