Palestinians support Hamas decision to go to war with Israel, survey suggests, with no political solution on horizon
Palestinians support Hamas decision to go to war with Israel, survey suggests, with no political solution on horizon
A survey of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank suggests they back Hamas in its decision to go to war with Israel, seeing no alternative to armed struggle.
CNN reporting on some interesting survey results from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah. Seven hundred and fifty adults were interviewed face to face in the West Bank, and 481 were interviewed in Gaza, also in person. The Gaza data collection was done during the recent truce, when it was safer for researchers to move about.
Of course they’re going to support fighting back against a nation murdering their children in broad daylight while the world watches, who could blame them? Many probably didn’t hold those sentiments before this “reprisal” but now..
Eh, that's not quite what the survey respondents are saying. It's not as simple as "support war, yes or no?":
The survey, which has a four-point margin of error (rather than the usual three-point), found that almost three-quarters (72%) of all respondents believe Hamas’s decision to launch its attack on Israel on October 7 was “correct.” Less than a quarter (22%) said it was “incorrect.”
They're very clearly in favor of the initial attack, not just the response. And it goes further:
In Gaza, support for armed struggle has risen only slightly from 50% in September 2022 (a year before the current war) to 56% in December 2023. In the West Bank, however, support has been rising dramatically from 35% in September 2022 to 54% in September 2023 (a month before the war). This month, polled support for armed struggle reached 68% in the West Bank.
And:
But Shikaki cautions that higher support for Hamas should not be over-stated, at least not yet. As more Palestinians come to terms with the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7, so attitudes could change — though that is unlikely to be the case so long as Gaza remains under massive attack.
Important again is how many people have watched videos from October 7 and the differences between the territories. In Gaza, 25% of those asked said they had viewed such videos; and 16% of all respondents told researchers Hamas had committed war crimes. In the West Bank, the corresponding numbers were just 7% and 1%.
Gaza is moving out of denial more quickly than the West Bank, Shikaki says, and that means a reckoning for Hamas. Already, only 38% of Gazans want to see the militant group return to governance after the war.
Yep.
It's just they (rightfully) feel like diplomacy won't work because there's an obvious mismatch in strength, and the international community has shown not to give a fuck for decades.
It's a slow genocide, or a fighting chance.
They literally have no other option than sitting there waiting to be killed. Who wouldn't want to fight back? Even if they know they can't win.
the international community has shown not to give a fuck for decades.
The international community does give a fuck - or, at least, the west does. They want to see Israel successfully perpetrate genocide - and they would really appreciate it if everybody would shut up about it.
This is literally the opposite of the truth, look at how Israel has made peace with every other Arab nation in the area after they came to the table for peace, fighting will just end in more subjugation and loss of territory, that is the story of Israel and Palestine
Israel tries to make peace, Palestinians refuse and fight then lose more land, ad infinitum
Why does every post miss the fact this poll is about support for the Oct 7th attack, which is what directly lead to the "murdering their children" part.
Hamas performed a terrorist attack, Israel responded with genocide. Not equitable actions there
When you say a nation murdering their children you're talking about palestinians slaughtering Israelis , right? Oh no that's right, even though terrorists filmed everything, it's only justified since those civilians were evil Jews. https://thisishamas.com/
Never said that, both parties have committed war crimes, there is no good situation out of this. Genocide is wrong
Nice whataboutism, did you learn that in kindergarten?
No, they're talking about reality, not Israeli propaganda with no sources
Not surprising at all. When you see people around you dying, you either flee or fight... rest is all BS orchestrated by Zionist run media. The core is simple enough.
I can’t imagine why, considering how marvellously calm, restrained, and mature Israel has been. I mean it’s not like Israel has been indiscriminately bombing children or something…?
No! That's just what they want! No good will come of it and more people will die! Stay strong, Palestine! The world is with you!
Only one side will win.
Hamas is was and is a popular government. Sad given they haven't exactly steered Gaza to a good place.
I'm aware Israel is responsible for leveling Gaza but coming after the hostages was obviously going to happen - what's Hamas's end goal here?
No it really isn't that popular, based on polling done just before the Hamas attack.
Like it is among the most supported among Palestinians, but that leaves out the little matter of majority of Palestinians support no one, trust no one. They support no one, see no hope of better future with any path and pretty much are living due to day trying to manage the practical matters of their lives.
I find it challenging to navigate comment sections on this topic.
Firstly, Israel has the right to exist and defend itself against terrorism.
Secondly, Hamas is a designated terrorist organization. There is no justification for supporting such a group, just as you wouldn't sympathize with ISIS or the Taliban.
What we can agree on is that Israel's current right-wing government, spanning the past 20 years, has implemented policies criticized for creating an apartheid-like situation for Palestinians. The support for radical settlers and resulting violence against Palestinians is a legitimate concern.
It’s crucial to separate criticism of the Israeli government’s actions from questioning the right of Israel to exist. Criticize the policies, be concerned about the treatment of Palestinians, and advocate for a two-state solution that respects the rights and aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians. Removing religion and right-wing politics from the equation could pave the way for a more equitable and peaceful coexistence.
Israel has the right to exist
Did they have a right to exist when they stole land and only got control over it after multiple wars?
Feels like zionists are working overtime to craft any argument that diverts attention away from their colonization.
Zionism is religious nationalism. It is the belief that Jews are entitled to the land of Israel.
Defensive wars. You just don't want any Jews there big dog.
Acknowledging Israel’s right to exist doesn’t negate Palestinian rights.
While the establishment of Israel was rooted in the need for a Jewish homeland after WWII, it's crucial to distinguish between historical necessity and subsequent political actions. The shift toward right-wing Zionism has influenced policies, but blaming the entire state of Israel and Jewish people in general oversimplifies a complex history.
Don't get me wrong: religion should be out of politics, and this unnecessary war should get to a full stop. Attacking the right of people to form states (that applies for Palestinians and Jews) is not a solution to this conflict. It only ends in more death and more wars.
Israeli jews are indigenous to the Middle East, many expelled from their homelands in places like Iraq, Egypt, and Yemen. Your claim of "colonialism" (the word you're looking for here) may be a common view in the West, but it's an outright misconception.
The wars you're talking about: the big ones in 1948 and 1967 were started by groups of Arab states attacking Israel for declaring their independence. Israel defended itself.
Most importantly, October 7 of this year was an absolutely brutal bloodbath perpetrated against women, children, elderly people -- civilians. Twenty-year-olds dancing for peace. Residents of left-leaning Kibbutzes, many of whom were outspoken supporters of Palestinian rights. Members of Hamas and other Palestinians streamed across the border and shot civilians, beheaded them, lit their houses on fire, killed their children with grenades, tied women and girls to trees and raped them.
The next day, before a single Israeli bomb had fallen in Gaza, there were demonstrations in the West against Israel.
But why does Israel have a right to exist? It's not even 80 years old. That land was taken from the Palestinians, so it seems to me that the Palestinians have more right to the land than Israel does.
The answer to the conflict is definitely not genocide of either set of people and Hamas is certainly not going to stop their genocidal goals.
But no state has a "right" to exist, certainly not one that's less than 80 years old and which stole and is still stealing land from another group of people.
You are asking a philosophical question, but the original justification for the creation of Israel is no longer satisfying with modern sensibilities.
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The Ottoman Empire fell after WW1, after siding with Germany and losing. Turkey was strong enough to establish an independent state, but the southern part of the Empire was weak and without effective government. As such, it fell under the Mandates of France and the UK.
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A Zionist movement had already formed in the late 19th century to basically reunite the Jewish diaspora in their long-ago historical homeland. After the Holocaust of WW2, the UN decided to create the State of Israel in Mandatory Palestine as a refuge for the Jews. The area was chosen for obvious historical reasons, though of course the Jews hadn't had a state in the area for a very, very long time.
Philosophically, this is unsatisfying because it is based on old ideas of Great Power politics, imperial colonialism, and religion. Now, before anyone jumps in and starts railing against European imperialism, let's remember that the Ottoman Empire was every bit as imperialist and prone to genocide as any other empire.
As philosophically unsatisfying as the reasoning behind the creation of the State of Israel seems today, Israel's existence is now a well-established a fact on the ground. Of course, a fact on the ground has to be defended from challengers, which Israel has successfully done many times now. It has also earned the support the United States and many others. Even among its former enemies in the region, Israel has earned respect and a desire for normalized relations.
Do the Palestinians have the right to armed resistance? Sure, war is always an option, but victory in war is not given. It has to be taken by force. Ultimately, the right to exist is based on your ability to defend yourself. The State of Israel may only be 80 years old, but it has proven itself capable of defending its territory.
Are the Palestinians capable of taking back and defending territory? No, they are engaged in insurgency and guerilla warfare. This is a fine tactic in certain circumstances, such as Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc., but it's ultimate success is predicated on wearing down the morale of an occupying force so that they will leave. It doesn't work when the "occupying force" is on their own soil. Sure, Israel can be brought to the negotiating table to withdraw from the occupied parts of Palestine, but they'll only do that in exchange for true guarantees of peace. Most of the world sees this as a necessary compromise, which is why Palestine remains as it is: occupied and awaiting final resolution. Palestinians have never accepted that they were beaten. Continuing with armed resistance is no doubt satisfying for many people, and a source of pride for Palestinians. Histories all over the world are full of stories about glorious resistance against impossible odds. However, it is also why tens of thousands of Palestinians are being killed right now.
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The origin goes back to, no surprise, the British. Some politicians thought it would be good to grow their influence in the region, where they currently had none. Zionists wanted their own state there, and these politicians thought a growing Israeli population would give Britain more influence like they wanted.
The Zionist desire for a Jewish state is rather interesting, because there's arguably some similarities to Palestinians. There was a pogrom against Jews during the years of the Russian revolution, and it led a prominent Jewish thinker to opine that Jews would never see peace nor be respected unless they had their own state. The original desire was born from wanting to be free from discrimination and violence.
Unfortunately, there was a cultural "enlightenment" at the time as well, and this gave rise to an extremist Zionist way of thinking. They warped the original intent of wanting a Jewish state, and here we are today. Zionist groups would go on to commit terror attacks in Mandated Palestine.
Circling back, does Israel have a right to exist? I would say no -- but the Jewish people (completely separate from Israel) deserve to live in peace and with dignity. Just as the Palestinians deserve to live in peace and with dignity. And much like Zionist terrorists taking that pure desire and using it for their own ends, you have Hamas taking advantage of Palestinians and their anger.
It feels very hopeless at this point for the Israelis to recognize that Palestinians are like them, violently discriminated against in the past; and for Palestinians to recognize that Hamas is no better than the Zionist terrorists of the past.
40 acres and a mule after millennia of genocide and slavery across Eurasia came to a crescendo in 1939. Thank the Brits and the West for the location and the borders. There were other options like an adjacent sister state to Liberia. The Jews didn't make the decision in which. The imperialist colonisers at the time did.. you know.. only the haves can give anything to the have nots, bc have nots cannot jut decide to have...
Worst case.. the West thought it was a disposable enough place to spare the expense and/or Western military outpost
Best case.. centuries of friendship and living together between Jews and Muslims sounded like a good place.. we did flee to the levant from European fascism, which would validate it sounded like a good idea at the time. (Unfortunately the Brits said there was no room and shipped the Jews back to Nazi Germany to die, but that's another story)
A right wing minority party is waging ethnic class war right now. This is a problem for EVERYONE on earth except that party. Also, a powerful terrorist organization with philosophies of genocide controls an apartheid state's pseudo sovereign government and commits terror acts on Israeli Jewish humans. Whether Bibi fed them or not, Likud aren't the ones suffering personally.
I support the decision to go to war with Israel, too. The entire planet should be at war with Israel - and it's benefactors in the west as well.
I think the rest of the world should simply stop supporting Israel. No need to attack it, just let them fight their own battles.
9/11 literally only happened because of American support of Israel. It happened because most Americans were supporting Israel without even knowing it. The recent attack by Hamas brought the Zionist agenda and its victims back into the public spotlight. This is many people's first exposure to what's really going on in the Middle East, and Zionists do not like that.
Surely this would wipe out all the violent bastards without hurting any Israeli civilians, nor would it lead to increased violence against Jews by idiots who can't separate Jews from Israel. /s
All you'd accomplish is changing the power dynamic, but nothing else. And while that might feel good at the time, 50 years from now we'll have this conversation again, where the civilians caught in the middle of the conflict have been born into nothing but strife.
There's a reason why an ongoing moral in fiction is that revenge is bad. Violence begets violence. Unfortunately, I just don't see how this conflict can reach a resolution without continued violence. Nonetheless, there's no need to egg it on.