Mike Godwin: Yes, it’s okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don’t let me stop you.
Mike Godwin: Yes, it’s okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don’t let me stop you.
My very minor status as an authority on Hitler comparisons stems from having coined “Godwin’s Law” more than three decades ago.
My very minor status as an authority on Adolf Hitler comparisons stems from having coined “Godwin’s Law” about three decades ago. I originally framed this “law” as a pseudoscientific postulate: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” (That is, its likelihood approaches 100 percent.)
... We had the luxury of deriving humor from Hitler and Nazi comparisons when doing so was almost always hyperbole. It’s not a luxury we can afford anymore.
...
What’s arguably worse than Trump’s frank authoritarianism is his embrace of dehumanizing tropes that seem to echo Hitler’s rhetoric deliberately. For many weeks now, Trump has been road-testing his use of the word “vermin” to describe those who oppose him and to characterize undocumented immigrants as “poisoning the blood of our country.” Even for an amateur historian like me, the parallels to Hitler’s rhetoric seem inescapable.
He's said the same thing before. Back in 2016, in fact. He never meant it to mean "any comparison to Nazis is wrong" despite a bunch of fools on the internet thinking that's what it means.
Technically, Godwin's law was used to mark the point where a conversation was over because most comparisons to nazis are unwarranted and the argument was that once the tone has become this incendiary it's pointless to continue, not that all nazi comparisons were intrinsically wrong.
Dude is literally quoting Hitler
I heard Hitler also quoted himself quite often.
That does it! He's crossed a line no man should cross.
the real problem is the fact that his supporters all agree that fascism sounds fun and productive
I can't remember the exact source, but the person in Occupied France said that the problem wasn't the big Hitler in Berlin, it was the million little Hitlers in Paris.
“And Trump’s express, self-conscious commitment to a franker form of hate-driven rhetoric probably counts as a special instance of the law: The longer a constitutional republic endures — with strong legal and constitutional limits on governmental power — the probability of a Hitler-like political actor pushing to diminish or erase those limits approaches 100 percent.”
I was just watching a video that claims parliamentary systems are much less susceptible to that kind of fuckery than presidential ones. The US is apparently doing remarkably well for a country with a presidential system, because they usually turn into outright dictatorships pretty quickly.
I would expect a parliamentary system to also be friendlier to multiple political parties. Currently in the US a minor political party can’t really gain any power, whereas in a parliamentary system, it seems like a minor party could be a critical part of building a coalition
I always took Godwin's use of Hitler/Nazis as one of many final limits of arguments that the "losing" side would reach for in order to save their claim when they could not find rational reasons to support it anymore. Nazis, aliens, Deep State, etc. It's a mental flailing of absurdities to save face, and once there the point of debate is lost.
The difference between Nazis and the others you mentioned, is that Nazi happened and is having a big comeback, sadly.
I'm German and for the first time in my life i heard someone say Heil Hitler in the subway. After what he said, pure silence.
I was born long after ww2 and don't know how nazi Deutschland came to be. I know technically, but i didn't experience it.
But one thing i know for sure, i don't want to experience it.
Imo nazi is no final limit argument, it's no conspiracy theory or outer space evil.
You're right that the subjects don't have equal weights in reality. But at the time of Godwin's Law becoming a thing, the idea of fascism being an okay thing seemed about as ridiculous in the general public eye. We as a society do seem to forget the lessons from the past, or maybe some things hide and give the appearance of being gone.
In the U.S. I blame the underlying racism and "heritage" of the southern states (that spread to other states) which never really disappeared thanks to the fumbling of the Civil War resolution, but lay waiting for decades for new opportunities. It's no wonder that neo-Confederatism and neo-nazi seem to be found in similar places, ironically often wrapped in an American flag.
Complacence is part of the problem. There's a great 1943 video called "Don't Be a Sucker" that unfortunately is still timely in its message.
Thanks for sharing this. I'd love to visit Germany and learn more about what it's been like, both for your generation and the previous few. I'm not so interested in the rise of military power or atrocities so much as how people survived and adapted and rebuilt, and now reflect and learn and understand the past to avoid repeating it.
My grandparents fled Munich to Yugoslavia and then the US, and I don't think any close relatives have ever gone back.
That's what it was back then. Now, we have a presidential candidate that directly quotes fucking Hitler and doesn't get shitcanned for it.
I think that's how Godwin's Law was intended, yeah. Like a signpost that the argument had truly become hyperbolic and untethered from reality. Because it used to be that outwardly supporting nonsense and evil were socially unacceptable, even on the Internet. Times sure have changed.
insults in general, to be honest. Once a discussion devolves to insults, it's done.
Glad we have permission to call a thing what it is.
Imma file this under Winners v. Losers exception ;)