Florida bans driver's licenses of immigrants living in US illegally
Florida bans driver's licenses of immigrants living in US illegally
Florida will no longer accept driver's licenses issued by some other U.S. states to immigrants living in the country illegally under a law signed by Governor Ron DeSantis as he seeks the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.
Most concerning to me, outside the obvious, is that anyone from these states driving in Florida can now be stopped for any reason at all and ran through the for profit legal system. Escalating from "driving without proper ID" to some misdemeanor charges or more is pretty easy to do.
How would this work? They would still need a reason to stop and valid charges. Only IDs issued to those without legal status are invalid in FL.
Step 1: Police officer sees a car with an out of state license plate.
Step 2: Officer comes up with a reason to stop the car. Maybe the driver was doing 2mph over the speed limit or didn't stop 100% properly (in the officer's opinion) at a stop sign. Note that this can be completely made up. The officer can claim that they were going 50 in a 30 speed zone even if they were going 29mph.
Step 3: The officer asks for the driver's ID. The driver hands over their driver's license. The officer insists that they need VALID identification and the out of state driver's license doesn't count. (Bonus points if the officer confiscates the "illegal driver's license" and refuses to return it )
Step 4: The driver is arrested for driving without a valid license. If they are Latino (or just "look or sound foreign"), they are placed with some immigrants and threatened with deportation regardless of their actual citizenship status.
From my basic understanding, those states, you'd need a REAL ID to be a valid driver. I know I don't have one.
It would be used as pretense to stop those out of state plates, that will be in their own classification, and come up as a flag on officer computers, scanners etc. From there it's all discretion on the officers part on how they handle it. If their boss needs bodies, they'll be had, ime.
I won't be going to Florida anytime soon, for sure.
The would still need a reason to stop
The reason to stop comes up only if your lawyer brings it up. A public defender isn't going to bring it up because it requires being able to build enough doubt to have the judge inquiry. And a judge is going to be less favorable in giving a benefit of the doubt for a public defender. If you cannot afford a lawyer, you're less likely to afford the filing should the court go down that road of police inquiry.
This is why most people who go with public defenders just go with simple bench arranged plea deals. The vast majority of people pulled over aren't going to have the resources to challenge this. That's the entire point.
I have a problem with this in general. I'm an insurance agent, and our uninsured claims are skyrocketing and causing everyone's premiums to shoot up. The problem is the federal government is allowing them to live here, buy homes here, run businesses here, and pay taxes here. But the states are not allowing drivers licenses, so very few insurance options. Net result, we all pay higher insurance , and are often found sitting on the side of the road watching some car drive away to avoid the legal issues.
We can't have it both ways.
Lol, and this is Florida. Insurance there is already a dumpster fire shitshow with the insane levels of fraud. 🍿
Hmmm. If they invalidate someone's driver's license, for reasons that have nothing to do with their driving, I don't think all the illegal immigrants are going to park their cars and stop driving. When there's an accident, though, they'll be much more likely to flee the scene.
Hmm. I wonder if Florida is going to be taken to court for violating international treaties then? Immigrants from the affected states could apply for an international driving permit for extra protection?
IIRC an International Driving Permit isn't applicable in a country you are a permanent resident in(the specific rule at least where I live is if you're in the country for more than 90 days)
I don't think it's great that our system to become an American is so backlogged and slow. It shouldn't take 20 years to become one. Maybe five at the most.
But saying that, we do have a major illegal immigrant problem, and it's really frustrating that the left (which I am part of) refuses to admit its a problem. I don't think we should have a large swath of people coming in illegally and gaining the same rights that citizens have, and it sucks that legal us citizens pay the price in higher fees.
Like, it shouldn't be an all-or-nothing thing. We should have strict boarders and an easier path to citizenship. Instead we're putting patches and bandaid over the problem and it will never get fixed.
"illegal immigrants" is always fun when talking about the US. 1. classic dehumanizing tactic. These are not people they are ILLEGALS! 2. kinda hard to be a "legal immigrant" when it's fucking impossible to be one unless you have money, connections or...oh but that's the point isn't it? Also if it's impossible for them to be considered "legal" it means these people can be exploited, constantly all the way up to the legal form of slavery in this country. (prison)
Also, there is a very good chance all of these "illegals" that some of you clutch your pearls over pay more taxes than you do while also having fewer protections and more harassment. https://www.vox.com/2019/3/1/18241692/undocumented-immigrants-pay-state-local-taxes
How did they even get valid driver's licenses? That's what I want to know.
I think it just makes sense to allow them to get by. Driving, paying taxes, having insurance. It's just better for everyone, instead of trying to battle some "threat", you gotta go with the flow and maintain stability in what way you can. They are gonna drive anyway. You have to if you want to survive in rural areas.
I think this is a reasonable thing.
You feel Florida being able to unilaterally dictate validity of state documents is okay?
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
— Article IV Section 1 US Constitution
[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes
— Article I Section 8 Clause 3 US Constitution
Florida doesn't seem to have authority to just unilaterally dictate these things. It would seem that they must work with Congress to implement such regulation. The entire point the framers of the Constitution placed on the State system in Article IV of the Constitution is to:
- Protect their rights to regulate their citizens
- Prevent the abuse of them regulating other State citizens.
Florida's move to attempt to apply some pressure to citizens from other states is a direct violation of the core ethos that the framers of this nation wanted to have. If Florida wants to regulate Floridians into a fine mushy pulp, that is Florida's prerogative. Additionally, if Florida wants to prosecute someone from another State for violation of a law that Florida has, that's fine too. Where the line is crossed is when in the carriage of enforcing that law, it requires Florida to openly question another State's issuing documents. That is the violation.
Florida MUST work with Congress to implement the requirements for this framework that they have set up to function. Florida has not done so, they have forgone coming to the table to discuss the issue with the various States and decided to act in a unilateral manner. I get they want to clamp down on immigration, they must do so according to the laws that are set forth and must do so in good faith with the other States. This is neither.