Neither Hamas nor Israel should rule Gaza in future, EU says
Neither Hamas nor Israel should rule Gaza in future, EU says
Gaza might become an international protectorate after the war, the EU has said, adding that neither Palestinian group Hamas nor Israel should ever rule there again.
Correct.
Palestine should be allowed to exist without needing a Star Wars level rebel terrorist group to rage against Israel's cruelty.
Fuck Hamas, but they only exist because of Israel.
Now the only question is if we can get that genie back in the bottle if we correct our mistake, stop funding Israel, and let them fade away into dust.
Yes, very much yes. Hamas has signed permanent ceasefires before and followed them until it became clear Israel had no intention of upholding its end of the deal. Basically Hamas is currently rebelling against the blockade. Lift that and the whole Gaza side ends. Of course they'll just ramp up their activities in the West Bank instead because those people are also being genocided, so something needs to be done there too.
The genie is basically hitting you and begging to be put back in the bottle.
Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them
1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected
Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new ‘policy document’ accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103
Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected
1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
Not gonna link Trump’s imbecilic peace plan as an example.
Here is a list of peace offers
the Palestiniansthe governing body of palestinians offered to Israel -None
Changing the guards of a prison, doesn't make it less a prison. There needs to be economic trade, economic development, a path to prosperity for people to believe in so they stop investing in the past.
As long as Gaza is entirely surrounded by Israel or countries doing Israels bidding, it will remain a prison, unless Israel goes through serious reform and atops being a brutal opressive regime.
For that to happen all illegal settlements would need to be dismantled though.
Or we need the formation af a new state that includes all territories, gives equal rights to arabs and jews and returns as much land as possible to displaced palestinians as well as compensates them properly. Also all terrirorists, that means also all settler terrorists need to be tried and convicted for their atrocities. For that i think it would be best do these trials at the ICC and provide prison facilities in Europe for the pre trial and post trial imprisonment of terrorists.
If Palestinians are given a real perspective and some justice i think it could work out. It would require the current terrorists and corrupt criminals in both governments to be removed from power though. So Bibi and Abbas will fight it tooth and nails.
As an intermediate step we would probably need a new UN mandate and lots of pressure to make Israels apartheid government step down.
As long as Gaza is entirely surrounded by Israel or countries doing Israels bidding, it will remain a prison, unless Israel goes through serious reform and atops being a brutal opressive regime.
This is only true if you agree with the opposite as well: As long as Israel is entirely surrounded by Arab League or countries doing their bidding, it will remain a fortress under siege, unless the Arab world goes through serious reform and atops being brutal opressive regimes.
Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
100%. A upvote is simply not enough!
Yeah, but you shouldn't release people before they're re-socialized either. Gaza needs an occupying force for the same reason my home country needed one in 1945: Way too many fascist in the population.
Some some survey data:
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And of course there's the fact that 2013 at least 59% of Palestinians were in favor of executing apostates (i.e. murdering people who cease to be Muslim).
That said, of course there needs to be a positive economic development. Just like there was in Germany under occupation.
That's idea I guess: why take the responsability if not to make changes? Would be senseless otherwise.
It makes sense but it is also not just impossible but begging for a world power to step in and impose themselves. How would an union already incapable of helping Ukraine and dealing with internal turmoil in each of their countries suddenly project itself between two groups that want to kill each other and think they will be successful there. Hell, have you even thought about how Turkey and Hungary would react and try to exploit their own influence over such a protectorate?
The UK should be the protectorate there. They've got experience in the region. (/s)
Edit: added /s before someone takes it serious.
Residents of Blackpool and Luton would welcome this as it would give them a new opportunity to live somewhere better.
Last time we were in charge we caused the current situation
Yep, came here to comment on the fact that we don’t care what the EU thinks, we need a word from the experts!!!
Why is it impossible? The simplest possible way would be to hold new elections in Gaza for which Hamas do not run.
It would probably lead to a group identical to Hamas being elected, but it would be neither Israel nor Hamas.
What may be impossible is a government that's aligned with western governments, but that's not what is being asked for.
I thought I spent most of my comment explaining why. I think your last sentence illustrates it best - do you think western governments like the US and anyone not Von der Leyen would be ok with it?
project itself between two groups that want to kill each other and think they will be successful there.
Because Israel wouldn't attack them and the other group won't have many weapons left when the IDF is finished with them. Obviously it won't be the EU alone as it would be seen as too one sided (well Ireland maybe not), but let's not forget that we're talking about a 360km² area with less than 2 million people here. This isn't a huge landlocked mountain country like Afghanistan, it's a tiny strip of desert with a modern harbor in walking distance. For reference you can look at the manpower KFOR and similar missions have.
It's not going to be easy to get political approval but a UN mission would almost certainly be able to keep the peace there.
It's better than just hoping Israel works it out, but it's still unworkable. Israel won't accept it. Hamas won't accept it. The US won't accept it. Iran won't accept it. Russia won't accept it. Whoever would be left doing it would get attacked from all sides, from within, and all while getting accused of imperialism from outside. I don't think a UN peacekeeping mission in territory where conflict is being fueled by the billions from all sides is workable, and if anything, it will attract the attention world powers who say they can only so they can station their bases closer to where their black markets are. It's still just my opinion, but reality will have to convince me on this one.
Juan Guaidó: I have practiced my entire life for this moment
XD omfg
Seems like theyre starting to go in a sane direction
Fuckin A man.
It should've been Egypt, but they don't want to.
I don't think they have the capabilities is my guess. It's understandable they don't want to, it's gonna be dangerous af. Politically speaking a UN Occupation and Peace Force would be the best way forward. Best from a country that is far away. China is not a bad contender. They have the resources and could gain valuable trade posts as well as prove their value as a world power they so desperately want to be. Philippines might also not be a bad choice they already have experience in UN Missions in Africa. Other choices could be a lot of states that have no geographical connection and don't belong to the "west" to avoid it seeming like some (post) imperialistic occupation.
Israel would probably be fine with Egypt but there's not much love left between Egyptians and Palestinians, and Egypt has its own shit to deal with in more than one way. The US is problematic for the same kind of reason: Palestinian distrust.
What could actually work is Germany, or more generally speaking a EU contingent under German command: Europe provides just over 50% of the total aid to Palestine and Palestinians know that, 20% from Arab countries, 11% from the US. (Providing aid to Palestinians is our favourite way to tell Israel's right wing to fucking cut it out).
All that hinges on Netanyahu and his Kahanites getting ousted, though, there can't be anything benefitting a peace process while von Papen and his fascists are in power as their power depends on conflict. Poll-wise it's looking good.
European Forces occupying the middle east gives of hard imperialistic taste. Also seeing how the EU and Germany are so close to the US militarily this could just be seen again as a western power struggle where US proxies are put in place. No what is needed is a country that is non aligned to neither the west nor the middle east.
German and Jews , again? Noooo
I imagine that it'll be a political mess for whoever winds up with it.
Whoever administers the Gaza strip, has to be neutral, or at least acceptable to the government of Israel. Egypt has a complex history with the government of Israel, and Israel probably doesn't want Egyptian listening posts inside of their territory.
Very true. Fortunately, that is what Israel is also espousing. They don't want to rule it after the war. That's good. Not much else that they're doing is good, but that is.
Hamas, however, sure does want to rule it after the war.
Hamas needs to be removed like a tumor, if the world doesn't want Israel to do it, then another Arab nation or world coalition needs to go in and deal with them. They can't be allowed to stay. The only way any positive can come is if both nations get new, younger leaders who want to coexist
I believe the israeli political leadership said they will have no responsibility for it. They did not say they won't have control over it. I fully expect them to continue the embargo forever. But just say they're not responsible for the suffering inside due to the embargo.
This is assuming they don't find some way to completely ethnically cleanse Gaza strip in the next month or two
They don't want to rule it after the war.
They are military occupying it, though, and are considering doing more than that.
Permanently Deleted
Bro.
Sounds like you have decent thoughts.
Why are you a cunt?
Did reddit hurt you?
of course it's a load of horse shit but it comes from a place of truth, doesn't it? where there's people, there will be someone to establish power. you can't just instate a vacuum of power. as far as i know, vacuums of power have always been volatile and led to weird rebel groups found proto states. maybe the post of that dude is just insane though, but i thought I'd try to interpret it
Palestine should extend to its internationally recognized borders as anything else is just an unsustainable non-nation, and thus nothing more than theatre and rewarding the Israeli fascists who have doing the "colonising" all these years and their fascist parties in government who right now are activelly commiting Genocide.
Further, Israel should be under Economic Sanctions from the EU until it complies.
This "international protectorate in Gaza" is just bullshit diplomatic cover for the genocidal actions of Israel - akin to "kill as many as you want and we'll calm down the rebelious feeling of the survivors in there afterwards" - that just endorses the status quo built by the Israeli fascists (thus rewarding them) and no doubt comes from the usual inept (or worse) politicians over there like Ursula van der Lyen who has never held a post were she didn't screw things up, in Germany or abroad.
This shit is like the Americans spewing their bollocks about "humanitarian pauses" whilst their government calls anybody critical of Israel "an anti-semite", parking 2 aircraft carriers in the region to "support Israel" and working on approval of a couple more billions for that country while it purposefully bombs civilians, only at least the leaders of the United States Of America aren't anywhere as stupid as wanting to put their own countrymen on the ground to sanitize the fast growing bloody pile of bones Israel has been raising in Palestine.
It's disgusting to watch this kind of sleazy diplomatic provision of covering to the genocidal fascists in Israel - invariably accepting of the very reshaping of Palestine that those fascists have imposed by violent means over the years and against UN resolutions and activelly refusing the possibility of sanctions against these specific genociders, quite a contrast to what was (deservedly) done with Russia after it invaded Ukraine.
lol, fucking european strawman
Gaza was given to Arabs for self rule and determination in 2005, all Jews left Gaza, even Jewish graveyards were dug up and moved, it was theirs to do with as they liked.
They've spent the last 18 years making into a terrorist Disneyland with a dozen Islamofascist terrorist organizations with the stated goal of killing Jews and destroying the state of Israel, they've fired hundreds of thousands of missiles into Israel indiscriminately targeting civilians, and launched countless cross borders attacks against Jewish civilians, including one that caused the largest loss of Jewish life in any single day, anywhere, since the Holocaust on October 7th.
They were given Gaza to live in freedom and self determination, they used it to kill Jews. They were warned. They chose to ignore the warnings.
These acts of terrorism were perpetrated by the entire Gazan community, they voted for Hamas, and allowed Hamas to rule their government for the last 17 years, Hamas and all the other Islamic terrorists in Gaza are not outsiders, they were born in Gaza of Gazans, they were raised in Gaza, they were educated in Gaza, they married and had children of their own in Gaza, their Parents, teachers, mosques, hospitals, are all in Gaza, from which they use to hid and store weapons to attack Jews, Hamas, PIJ and all the other Islamic terrorist in Gaza ARE Gaza, there has been no uprising in Gaza, there have only been attacks on Israel. This is what Gazans have supported and sacrificed for in every way they possibly could.
And now it's here. I do hope they enjoy what they've worked generationaly to achieve.
There will be no ceasefire this time.
Am YIsrael Chai
You're just copying and pasting this comment over and over again. Anybody can verify that by looking at your posting history.
I know, because I saw it before, I was going to argue with you but I saw it was an older comment. So I decided not to necro it.
Since you're posting it fresh, saying a place is independent, only applies if you allow them external trade. Embargoing and isolating a place, is an act of war, it's one of the de facto acts of war.
So if you have a territory that people are not allowed to leave, aren't allowed to trade, aren't allowed any economic activity... We have a word for that, it is a prison.
Well, you haven't gotten banned from feddit.de yet, so keep working on it with your copy and pastes.
https://mander.xyz/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&userId=1568268
Fucker is a boot licking fascist with Johnny Ramone as his avatar.
He will find his ban.
copy and paste genocide spam he's gotten banned from multiple communities for.
You're right bro.
Israel has not been murdering Palestinian civilians the whole way through so they could use the toys the US government gave them as a means to launder military industrial complex subsidies.
/s