Another post for not using systemd
Another post for not using systemd
Before anything else, I would like to say that I admit systemd has brought great change to GNU/Linux. sysvinit wasn't the best, and custom scripts for every distro is a pain I'd rather not have.
With that said, Poettering now works for Microsoft, systemd has basically taken over all of the common/popular distributions (if this is about the argument of "systemd making it easier for developers", disclaimer: I don't know. I'm not a developer), and this has led to a rampant monopolisation of the init system.
Memes aside, this has very real consequences. If you don't want another CentOS-style "oof, sorry, off to testing" debacle happening with your init system, might want to look at the more "advanced" distributions that let you choose the init system.
I am well aware that systemd works well for the most part, and that gamers and most other people likely don't care - which is fine, at least for now. I do expect to see a massive turnover in sentiment if something ever happens to systemd (not that I'd like for that to happen, but no trusting RedHat anymore), but I suppose we'll get to it when we do.
My sentiments are well enunciated in this recent post on the Devuan forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5826
Cheers!
and this has led to a rampant monopolisation of the init system.
You will be shocked if you find out that virtually every distro runs on the same kernel. Pure monopolisation! For the freedom to choose!
I'm just waiting for GNU Hurd to be viable myself.
I hear it's completely ready but they only built an ipv6 stack so as soon as everything finishes the quick migration to ipv6 we can all switch to it.
There was choice, but not enough volunteers: https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/
every distro runs on the same kernel.
Still it is super easy to change the kernel in an installed and running system, but compare that to the real PITA to change the init environment on the same system.
A different kernel would lead to a completely different OS. I do think the BSDs should be used more, but that is not the point of the post.
Why? Slab sysv-init (or openrc or s6) and the gnu tools the onto it and you will hardly be able to tell the difference :-)
That is actually the thing I like about systemd: They expose a lot of linux-only features to admins and users, making the kernel shine.
Ring me when systemd starts phoning home to Microsoft and/or installing random microsoft-related packages without my consent.
To M$ maybe not, to RH... dunno.
Whilst I don't think that will happen anytime soon, I do not like how RedHat handled CentOS. With that said, I don't think they are about to put their flagship init system on a testing-only OS (at this point), but I don't know what they will come up with
Remember when Google's DNS server address was hard-coded in systemd-resolved? Good times, what a laugh we all had.
Systemd-networkd (not systemd the init system) defaulted to the google DNS servers when:
- the admin did not change the configuration
- the user did not configure anything
- the network did not announce anything
- the packagers had not changed it as they were asked to do
- the distribution actually decided to switch to networkd. Few have done somtomthis day.
That is indeed a serious issue worth bringing up decades later.
Poettering now works for Microsoft
systemd has no copyright assignment or CLA. Poettering could work for Putin and systemd as proper Free Software project would not be affected that much.
this has led to a rampant monopolisation of the init system.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
That's literally the opposite of a monopoly. You can make a fork of systemd now and call it lemmyd.
Yeah as far as i know Red Hat is still the primary developer... for what that's worth. But I'd worry more about them than Poettering.
monopolisation of the init system
That's the one thing about systemd that is sort of nice. We don't really need to have more than one init system, and it does a sufficiently comprehensive job of being one. If it were only an init system and nothing else, there basically wouldn't be any remaining complaints about it by now.
I do agree somewhat. The main argument coming against it is not following the "Unix philosophy" which I'm a proponent for, making
systemdannoying.To be fair, every part of it is a small binary that generally does a single thing. You don't have to run them all or even install them but they bring a lot of necessary functionality around base host bootstrapping that everyone used to write in shell for every distro.
I find it nice as an operators of multiple infrastructures to be able to log into a Linux system and have all the hosts bootstrapped in a relatively similar fashion with common tools.
Sysv kinda sucked because everyone had to do it all themselves. Then we got sysv, openrc, upstart and then systems and there was a while there where you never knew what you'd get if you logged into a box. And oh look, I gotta remember 10 different config file locations and syntaxes to assign an IP. Different syntaxes to start a daemon. Do I need to install a supervisor or does that come with the init.
People are doing a lot of really cool stuff with Linux OSs assigning IP addresses in 10 different ways or starting programs was never one of them.
Its also not that systemd has a monopoly, there are other init systems out there, but all the big distros, RH, Debian, ubuntu, arch . . . all came to the same decision that it was the best available init and adopted it. There are other options and any one of those projects is big enough to maintain its own init, but no one really finds the value in dedicating reaources, so they haven't.
If you don’t want another CentOS-style “oof, sorry, off to testing” debacle
The major difference is that the CentOS project is basically owned by redhat while systemd isn’t. I do not get this argument. Systemd makes it easier for EVERYONE instead of having to port services across init systems. Unless your alternative has compatibility, I won’t use it.
-- because it's not an argument; it's a vague association of imagery with no explanatory content.
What does Poett.'s current employment have to do with anything, though? Guido van Rossum (Python) & Simon Peyton Jones (Haskell) work at M$; I believe the guy who started Gentoo went on to work there likewise. Same with the lead dev of GNOME. I despise M$ as much as the next man; but correlations like these reek of guilt by association.
Good alternatives: Devuan, Slackware, Gentoo.
Gentoo took the better approach, imo, you can choose your init system. Done.
Indeed. I'd add Void for runit and the BSDs to the list.
Add Artix to that too.
might want to look at the more "advanced" distributions that let you choose the init system.
Yeah, sure... integrating a init system is a huge task (if you want to do it properly). Let's do that several times!
Obsolete tech gets phased out all the time. Why do so many people want to treat systemd like some kind of conspiracy? Where's the hate for Wayland, or x86_64?
I don't have a very high opinion of x64 either, but that's for a different post
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To be honest, I somewhat enjoyed this talk