But I like the secret handshakes of the Illuminati

Why does one replace the other? Ever since 9/11 I've noticed a real push to discredit conspiracy theories to the point where the term now invokes images of lunatics with tin foil hats and insane ideas like lizard people and whatnot. It's been really effective too. Like, there's things out there that sound bat shit crazy until it turns out they were true - like operation Northwoods for example - but nobody seems to care because they are verified decades later.

Sure, there's visible people out there that can be blamed, but why is it so outlandish that there may be more who know how to hide from public scrutiny?

I've always wondered for example, what ever happened to the vast wealth of all these families that feature in every conspiracy theory like the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers etc? Are we to believe that they just faded away from public affairs, are no longer important and that the richest men in the world are the newbies, Bezos Elon etc? I've not looked into it or anything (Eddie Bravo style) but somehow I don't buy it, I bet they're still behind major things that are happening today. If anyone has an explanation I'd love to hear it btw. Would love nothing better than a good debunking.

"You don't need to invent an invisible shadow government to be mad at. You can just be mad at the actual government."

i think- i think the "invisible shadow government" conspiracies are a cope. if someone voted for the current government that is fucking things up (as the opposition said they would) then it might be hard to admit to having made the wrong choice whilst voting, especially if the current government claims to hold the same values as you "my wholesome christian government that said they'd help guys like me wouldn't be the ones making my life harder! it must be the secret cabal!!!"
- An "invisible shadow government" is a crazy idea. Why would someone in charge of a black budget and it's secret infrastructure accept democratic oversight?

As Naomi Klein said: Conspiracy theorists often get the feeling right but the facts wrong.

i have an ur-conspiracy theory that every elaborate conspiracy theory is a distraction from a simple and straightforward conspiracy. for every "trump is trying to uncover a vast child sex ring" there's a "trump fucks kids and our system of capital protects him"
- That kind of sums up the difference Naomi Klein makes in Doppelganger about conspiracy theory and leftist critics: Leftists will look at the system while conspiracy theorists will assume the system is good but some people, most often Jews, have somehow corrupted it.
If you're into literature and willing to explore the absurdity of conspiracy theorists then Foucault's Pendulum by Humberto Eco is a great read.
And somehow prophetic regarding the post truth world...
I think this sums up pizzagate. The actual evidence was woeful but some high up people got very scared and shut it down.

I mean there's definitely groups of powerful rich people that aren't widely known. That's just cuz they're smart enough to stay out of the Limelight. It's not a secret society though.

Like Thiel and Ellison. They are pulling the strings like a marionette on our government, but they aren't household names.
If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power. Instead newspapers gossip about movie stars and a small group of rich people. That's more than smartness.
- If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power.
  Ain't no "If". There is no need for the people to know who holds the power if they are perfectly capable of maintaining power without the spotlight, which they are. Being in 'the spotlight' would only hurt them because then people would know who to blame.
  It's only the ignorant jackasses like Trump and Musk who gained their power by luck who brag about their power, the rest are cunning enough to know better.
- Well yeah man who do you think owns the spotlights?

Why not both?

You can't be widely known and not known at the same time
- You know there’s more than one rich person in the world, right?

I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill 'em all!

The only good billionaire is a dead billionaire

Why not both?

The rich love being in a exclusive secret clubs and creating a secret club with dedicated buildings/rooms is not super difficult if you have money. They are still the same rich though.

It’s almost certainly both. It’s the ones we know about (all the stupid ones) and the ones we don’t know about (smarter.)
- What if the movers and shakers get together at a publicly disclosed, but extremely private meeting with no outside access?
  No meeting notes, and the participants are basically sworn to secrecy. But once a year the most obscenely wealthy individuals on the planet get together to discuss their own vision for the future. And the location is public knowledge, simply because the insane level of security ensures that nobody who wasn't invited will ever get in.
  And whatever they decide, these fuckers absolutely have the power to make it happen. Bet they just fucking laugh their asses off at the various Illuminati conspiracies out there.
- Exactly. There is a theory that those actually in charge are bored of Trump, hence why he’s suddenly getting thrown under the bus. They aren’t necessarily richer, just collectively have more money/power.

Both. The smart works work behind the scenes like that anti christ looking mfer Peter thiel.

He looks like a fucking tweaker
- no joke, he wants to live forever, he's into cryonics and wants to test some random ass not-yet-meds on people to that end (see his anti-FDA stance and enhanced games)
I don't really know how widely known Peter Thiel is. Like the circles I run in know him. He's known here. But does the average person on the street know who is? Not even that does the average news watcher/reader know who he is?

Secret group of rich people

Let me guess. Those rich people are Jewish?

No, they're secret. No way to know. Unless you got insider information. i lick it boom boom dem
What is it with people associating Judaism with secret power? Just because they win a disproportionate amount of Nobel prizes?
- The argument that I heard was "historically, jews weren't allowed in many professions. But lending money was something they could do. So that's how they got rich and with money comes power." But I'm not sure whether that's the 'real' reason...

Secret Group of Rich People = Poor People, Migrants, and Minorities

I'm still trying to figure out if Bill Gates is good or evil.

Gates made his money off monopolizing technology. You can find memos where he specifically leveraged his contacts with manufacturers to ignore specifications (which Microsoft helped specify) so FOSS like Linux wouldn't work properly.
I truly believe in a world without Microsoft that todays software would be much safer, private and advanced by quite a few years.
Gates only became a philanthropist after he married, there's probably a very good reason she left, even excluding the Epstein connections.
- And he's largely responsible for the "licensing" model for commercial software, ensuring we'll never actually own software we pay for. So not surprising at all he used 'scorched earth' tactics to impede the Foss movement.
There are no good billionaires.
Totally evil. His vaccine campaigns (covid and before) have the sole purpose to legitimize copyrights on life saving medicine and he gets the power to decide who lives and who dies. And he uses this to optimize for good headlines like "malaria extinguished in region X" where X is a region with barely any malaria in the first place but it sounds better than "medicine send to where it's needed most according to real experts" which is a region with a high rate and you will barely lower it but rather control which makes more sense but less headline. I hope I'm making sense.
- I thought the Gates Foundation was almost universally deemed to be helping people.
- I'd like to see some factual reporting on this