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52 comments

  • If they get even a cent from you, then you are funding their crap. Also whatever you don't like about them will certainly be part of their art. If that doesn't bother you, then sure, enjoy what you want.

  • Sure. Just don't pay. I listen to some very questionable or morally disgusting songs because I like the music. And I personally never care for the author's life story. I don't ask who builds my car either.

  • Yes. It would be necessary to live a modern life, given almost everything we use/eat comes from some unethical source. We abstain from the things that are important to us, according to our values. Lyrically if a song does not itself promote [terrible thing] then the music can be separated from an artist that does.

    However if it is important to you that your listening does not generate income for those people, don't listen to their music in apps (eg Spotify, who pays based on plays), nor on their official YT channels (which are likely monetised).

    Also, be mindful that playing/listening to it around others is a form of 'conspicuous consumption', one of many ways our actions become 'Word of Mouth' advertising. This may lead others to believe you support the artists specifically, and depending on their values, they may be derisive or hostile. (Or, they agree with [terrible thing] and believe you are alike.)

  • I’m sorry I should read more English literature, but I’m a bit in a hurry right now.

    1. You shouldn’t feel guilty if you haven’t given them a cent since they’ve been exposed as Nazis (and as a rapist in Monson’s case), and if you haven’t listened to any new release, i.e. if you don’t contribute to their careers now. You may have done this in the past, even by normalizing them, but that’s all you can do right now, and at the same time the bare minimum.
    2. Should you feel allowed to get emotional on a Nazi’s music? Cold rationality may make us stray away from humanity when we touch this topic, honestly; I’m all for rationally discussing Nazism, but ambivalent people really need to understand that a Nazi is de facto a monster first, and that they’d be so much more useful dead than alive that it outweighs the usual considerations on their dignity as a human being. Now, yes, if it helped you keep pushing back then, if you don’t fund their careers and if you don’t listen to new releases.
    3. As a reminder, you may self-host a private tracker on an old computer that won’t boot Windows 10 for you and your friends, complimented by a Jellyseerr/Sonarr/Readarr setup. Anyone with a bit on experience in piracy has a few high-quality discographies, so maybe one of your friends has downloaded their discographies on TPB back when they were “controversial”.
    4. As a semi-related reminder, the IRC protocol is designed for asking questions. Linux distributions (and other standard operating systems) have the best compatibility; interestingly enough the protocol has kept one third of its user base since its peak, and the Undertale’s Undernet is actually the name of one of its oldest servers. You’re probably gonna need help with your first server so feel free to come around and ask questions.

  • Sometimes it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, particularly when the artist in question is especially vile.

    Just pirate their music. Don't stream it, don't go to their concerts, don't buy and wear their merch. As long as you're not financially contributing to them then I don't think there's any issue.

    It also, like CaptainPedantic said, matters what they're singing about. If the artist has shitty views but doesn't present them in their music that's one thing but there's no ethical way to listen to something called Heil Hitler.

  • Yup. It's very easy indeed.

    Pirate the fuck out of their stuff, enjoy, repeat.

    Edit: the exception is when the the fuckery is in the music/art.

  • YMMV. There is no universal answer to this question. None of us separate the artist entirely from the work and thus our enjoyment of it. I think of it in video game terms. Every artist has a power bar. They can get hit a couple of times and can still be tolerated when they're in the yellow. But once we're in the red zone and the character starts getting translucent or is flashing I'm out. This is all very subjective though.

    Marylin Manson went red for me and I scrubbed the songs I liked from my playlists. Michael Jackson also. But I continue to listen to The Smiths/Morrissey in spite of Morrissey's politics. I still enjoy Pink Floyd although Walters and Gilmore are profoundly unlikable characters and Walter's politics rub me the wrong way a lot of the time.

    In the age of streaming, there isn't a lot of money going to the artist. You're not really supporting them financially if you enjoy their music in spite of any a-holery, moral or criminal, they may have committed. If you get something out of it, continue to do so. If it feels yucky then I'm gonna guess one more hit is putting the character in the red. And if you paid for the music/album, the "damage" is already done.

    I'm glad I was never a big fan of Kanye's œuvre so I don't have to wrestle with this question about him. I think he would have done enough to drain his power bar thrice over and thus it's game over for me. I wish he had more well meaning people around him who could help him to protect himself from himself.

  • Well there is enjoying an artists music and there is supporting an artist and defending them. But you have to decide when to cut off an, "abusive relationship". I can hold a person and artist in separate spaces. A love a lot of music, literature, art that was created by terrible people but try and avoid giving those people my attention and money. Other people have said that while an artist creates, its not their art, it's ours. Perfect example is Harry Potter books. I would say that people's experience and enjoyment of the books is not JK. Now the tough decision comes when you want something created by an artist/company and you have to support them for your own enjoyment. That is the line we all consider. Just trust yourself to find it. Nothing is truly just in this world but we shouldn't stop trying.

    • The bigger problem with Rowling is how she rubs it in everyone's face that any money going towards her is spent on hate speech/groups.

52 comments