2d ago

A tax on people-pleasing

165 comments

We should end tipping culture. Wages should never be optional, and anyone working full time should be paid by their employer a living wage as described by FDR when the minimum wage was created.
Until we end tipping culture, tip your servers. You're not some edgy social justice warrior by quoting Mr. Pink and acting like keeping your two dollars is somehow helping. You're just an asshole.
- Calling it culture sounds a bit weird to me it's an exploitative loophole that's illegal in cultured places.
  
  That's fair. We should call it regulation and labor laws. Minimum wage laws specifically enshrine tipping as a foundation of server wages, and closing that loophole is a necessary first step.
- The single best thing people can do to end tipping culture is to just stop tipping.
  Vote for social safety nets or make donations to care for those who will be harmed by this.
  But right now it's people like you that are perpetuating tipping culture.
  And yes, I am an asshole - but it's not solely because of my stance on tipping.
  
  Nah, it's a known cultural fact that tipped wages are offloaded directly onto the consumer. Not paying them is refusing to participate in the game of capitalism in the worst possible way. By withholding the wages of your fellow worker but continuing to do business with their employer, you are just increasing the value extracted from them.
  If you don't want to tip, don't go to tipped restaurants.
  That's it. That's the only ethical play to avoid tipping. Don't participate at all, don't fund the unethical business model at all. As it stands, not tipping doesn't threaten the business model - they still get paid.
  
  Lol, I'm sure your reasoning is really going to make a difference to the person depending on tips to make rent. And I'm sure the owner is just going to feel terrible that his server didn't get compensated.
  Maybe you should just avoid giving your business to restaurants that exploit the tip based system? You aren't ending tipping culture by not tipping, you're just taking advantage of workers just as much as the owners.
  
  If a person doesn't tip, their server doesn't get tipped.
  If that same person avoids giving business to restaurants that exploit the tip based system, the same server still doesn't get tipped.
  You're not ending tipping culture by tipping, either. Just saying.
  
  the same server still doesn't get tipped.
  They may have more time or availability for someone who does tip, plus they aren't wasting their labour on someone.
  You're not ending tipping culture by tipping, either. Just saying.
  Yeah, but I never claimed I was attempting to end tipping culture by wasting people's time and effort.
  Again, why not just support businesses that don't rely on tipping to pay their staff?
  
  the same server still doesn’t get tipped.
  They may have more time or availability for someone who does tip, plus they aren’t wasting their labour on someone.
  Oh, wow. Suddenly they're not being paid at all only because one person doesn't tip? How does that work?
  Yeah, but I never claimed I was attempting to end tipping culture by wasting people’s time and effort.
  Not tipping wastes nobody's time. That's not how time works. You did say "You aren’t ending tipping culture by not tipping, you’re just taking advantage of workers just as much as the owners" which I turned around on you, though. Also, what you said here is wrong because I don't exploit anybody's labour by not tipping since I'm not getting paid to eat out. You understand that.
  Again, why not just support businesses that don’t rely on tipping to pay their staff?
  Why didn't I think of that and not do it for the last 20 years? You really opened my eyes to the most obvious thing ever! I already don't perpetuate a system that exploits workers. Maybe you should too.
  
  Oh, wow. Suddenly they're not being paid at all only because one person doesn't tip? How does that work?
  Lol, I'm guessing you've never worked in a restaurant before? If you are taking one of their tables and they are having to serve you, and you don't tip....they don't get money for that table and whatever time you used it for. If you hadn't taken up the table, they may have gotten a customer who wasn't an asshole.
  Not tipping wastes nobody's time
  It wastes the servers time, but you don't seem to think that matters.
  which I turned around on you, though.
  How, by being wrong?
  I don't exploit anybody's labour by not tipping since I'm not getting paid to eat out. You understand that.
  Tipping is wrong because it turns over the responsibility of labour expense to the customer. You, the customer are denying that labour expense and leaving the labourer unpaid for their labour. Meaning you are participating and taking advantage of their labour.
  Why didn't I think of that and not do it for the last 20 years?
  Lol, you are still participating in the tip culture if you give your business to places that rely on tipping, but don't tip. The owner still gets paid and doesn't give a shit if the server does or not.
  And if you are saying you don't go to places that accept tips, then why are you even fucking talking to me? My whole point was that people who don't like tipping culture shouldn't go to places that accept tips.
  
  Bullshit, and that's a dangerously naive perspective. If everyone stopped tipping tomorrow, the only people that would be hurting are the people who serve.
  All labor regulations exist because there will always be someone desperate enough to do anything for a paycheck. Child laborers. Prostututes. Dallas Cowboys. People will do anything for money, and the only way to prevent exploitation is with regulation. The "free market" will turn your bones into paste before it provides a living wage to laborers.
  Capitalism is an unbalanced power dynamic that relies on an excess of desperation. If people didn't need to sell their time, they'd never sell it for less than it is worth to employers. So if everyone agreed to just stop tipping, service would get much worse, and servers would be working for $2.10 an hour plus kitchen scraps.
  At least we agree on uour last point.
  
  If everyone stopped tipping tomorrow, the only people that would be hurting are the people who serve.
  Who would then not want to work in those places that depends entirely of tipping. And then it hurts the owners of those places.
  How are you unable to realise this? It is all connected.
  
  That's literally the rest of the comment. Did you just stop reading there?
  
  That's not. How. Tipped. Wages. Work.
  Why do people insist that you get paid 2.10/hr? That's 2.10/hr + Tips IF AND ONLY IF that wage equals more than minimum wage. That's how it's always been.
  If minimum wage is 7.25 (in a lot of states, it still is), then they are paid 7.25x40 OR 2.10x40+tips, whichever of those two numbers is higher. They CANNOT LEGALLY PAY YOU less than minimum wage.
  So when people say "If you stopped tipping today, all that would be hurt is the tipped workers" I'm less inclined to believe them if they also parrot absolutely false information without a second thought.
  But I do agree with you, tipped wage jobs suck, and the tips seem to be the only benefit. So, let's ensure they get a proper wage from their employer, stop tipping, and if service sucks until things are figured out, I guess I'm eating at home or eating shitty-service burgers because I'd rather the system get un-fucked than continue to engage in that system.
  
  You've never worked a tipped job, have you? Estimate the percentage of employers who pay minimum wage if tips are too low. Throw out any number.
  
  "You've never worked a tipped job have you?"
  Proceeds to describe an illegal situation
  
  Wow, you've never worked a job before, huh?
- The whole point of that scene was that even a room of psychotic killers was disgusted by the idea of not tipping.
  
  It's amazing how many people saw it and said, "You know, the crazy-eyed murderer makes a good point."
- Until we end tipping culture, tip your servers.
  If everyone continues to tip by default, then I believe this will delay or prevent an end to the culture. If servers don't have an issue with tipping (because everyone does so), then there is less reason to support change.
  If one person doesn't tip:
  You're just an asshole.
  If a large majority doesn't tip:
  Maybe there is a problem with tipping by default?
  
  That's not how anything works. If you want change, you need to vote for it. You're not going to change the entire economic structure of the whole restaurant industry by being a selfish asshole. You're just punishing the people who handle your food and making life harder for everyone.
  
  Who do I vote for specifically to end tipping culture?
  
  I don't know where you live, but start local. And in the meantime, stop going to restaurants.
  
  Exactly! Don't stiff the worker, stiff the business
  
  It definitely does not work in an environment where lazy aggressive apatheists will support a system they don't like by claiming it can't be changed.
  
  First day on Earth? Welcome. Mind the dog shit, some people don't pick up after themselves.
  
  If the large majority doesn't tip, wait staff will become homeless. That's the only "message" you're sending. Restaurant owners won't care in the slightest.
  Don't patronize organizations that don't pay their employees. This is the message, you're claiming you want to send. You have to take money away from the people who set the policy, not the worker who has to live under the policy. Find restaurants that refuse tips and spend your money there. (Or just don't go out.)
  Until we end tipping, tip your servers.
  
  ...not the worker who has to live under the policy.
  They don't have to work there.
  
  They do, their alternatives are being homeless, or working at another company that's very likely managed the exact same way.
  The lack of a social safety net or sufficient welfare, empowers exploitative labour conditions.
  
  I was once poor and facing homelessness and I intentionally avoided tipped positions and only applied for jobs where I was paid more than $2.10/hr. I got one of those jobs.
  I'm not insinuating that everyone can do this, but I think most people can, considering the vast majority of mininum-wage jobs are not tipped-wage jobs. I don't think most people feel forced to take a tipped-wage job.
  
  They do, their alternatives are...
  So they don't.
  
  Are you advocating for no more servers? Or are you suggesting that only the desperate should do the job? Or is your point that someone who chooses to be victimized by society should simply accept their rung on the ladder?
  
  Restaurants are the backstop for a lot of people that have nowhere else to work. They aren't worried about a spotty background check, they won't run a drug screening, they just care that you show up on time.
- Well in Australia we don't have tipping.
  
  You sure you don't use some other word? You guys have one of the best accents out there but can be tough to understand.

165 comments