1w ago

HRT discussion

I keep avoiding the topic with myself. I would like to do HRT but I mainly spin the following reasons in my head for not doing it:

Muscle loss, I cant work out as often as I would like and it would be visible. I don't feel secure without some muscle to seem intimidating so I can defend myself. I am rather visibly queer and already get harassed as is for that and wearing a mask. I dont know any self defense and having muscles at least deters some people.
I dont want to be dependent for my whole life on estrogen. Logically speaking I want it but I keep thinking in war scenarios, or travelling, or anything impredictable it would basically be near impossible to get and I dont want to depend on something I cannot obtain easily and cant control the circumstances
Where I live there are no trans friendly doctors and I do not trust myself with DIY dosages at all. I wouldnt trust the DIY source in the first place, and even then making sure I dont fuck up my own body is too big of a responsability. I likely have OCD and freaking out if I did the dosages correctly or some small random shit would not do me good. Would very much prefer doctors but impossible in my case.

Asides I would really like the changes mentally and physically. I am too hesitant to get into this without proper help from a doctor or such. I've been reading HRT materials for at least an year and I still find a lot of the chemistry things confusing and dosages.

26 comments

Well, maintenance of muscle mass will certainly not be helped by low estrogen and testosterone, a common result of going through "trustworthy" official channels.
- Ignoring the dosage instructions, I am more concerned with the quality of the DIY estrogen that can be bought
  
  There are reputable DIY labs that ship worldwide.

The whole muscle loss/gain thing is very much "your mileage may vary". For what its worth I've been able to make gains nearly half a decade in. The supply chain disruption thing is scary but can be prepared for and just about every drug that feminizing HRT is comprised of is being used off-label. Spironolactone, for example, is generally refered to as a diruetic. This makes it much more widely available than would be otherwise.
The rest of what Im going to say is much less concrete than concerns about supply or biodynamics.
All things come to an end, and so will you. The possibility that things might get worse in the future shouldn't prevent you from making things better for yourself now. In the end, "what would it have been like had I taken that chance?" stings a whole hell of a lot worse than "damn, I sure fucked that one up".
HRT doesn't have to be a forever thing. Its your body, its your life. If it turns out that you don't like how it makes you feel you can stop at any time. However, if you never start you'll never get to make that choice.
Personally, I spent about half a decade coming up with reasons not to transition until things caught up with me and the fear of the nothing I was becoming overpowered the shame I felt towards my queerness. I didn't want to be dependent on drugs (at the time I was an unapologetic nicotine addict, so this is really funny), I didn't want to make myself vulnerable, and I didn't want to be wrong about all this. I started HRT conditionally, taking low doses of an antiandrogen before incorporating estrogen months later, just to give myself time to accept who I already knew I was.
I don't know you and I won't pretend I do, but I will say this: Go for it, get on HRT, there are people who can help you with the ins and outs so you won't have to go at it alone. This could be one of the best things you ever do for yourself. It might be hard at times but you were never going to lead a life free of struggle, so you should choose to struggle for something good.

I've been on E for 4 months and haven't noticed any strength or muscle loss but I am very eepy all the time now
Caveat is that I work a very physical job so my body is getting worked almost daily.
You won't be dependent on estrogen unless you have your balls removed. Considering that the supply of E might get cut off I think holding off on an orchi/vaginoplasty is probably a good idea.
There are online pharmacies and doctors that can prescribe stuff. If you just want to see if HRT is for you, start with pills. If you want to continue I recommend getting patches or doing injections because the pills have a higher risk is blood clots long term.
- Technically even people without testicles aren't dependent on testosterone or estrogen. It's rough but you have some hormones from adrenal glands.
  Court Eunarchs have been a thing across history and many lived long lives. There's all sort of additional health complications like osteoporosis. But it's not like you drop dead without estrogen or testosterone.
  Even today there's people due to hormonal related cancers (prostate or testicular, breast or ovarian) who have to be deprived of sex hormones either chemically or surgically to treat the cancer and prevent it's return.
  
  Very true, I just assumed they said dependent because they want good bones
- Yea I kinda want to wait until I have free time to be more active again so I dont have severe muscle loss.
  Thank you for your advice! My inner paranoid skeptic would still be suspicious of anything "not vetted" but that probably applies to most things.

I'm almost 2 years into HRT and having not done any hypertrophy training or eating at a caloric surplus or a lot of protein, my muscle loss has been minimal. It definitely depends on person to person
It's possible fat distribution may make you look less muscular but the actual circumference of my arms have been almost the same
I did lose most of my strength though
- Ah okay thank you. I do like my strength but I suppose the trade off is worth it

Can I gently push back on your first and second points?
- Of course
  
  I actually went ahead and posted what I had to say anyways, I hope you don't mind.

There's Cis and trans women athletes (the latter a current target of reactionary response). Yes estrogen is not as advantageous to muscle growth but women/femmes can still be muscular.
I've definitely thought of this myself. Estrogen vials from DIY can last 5 years and are quite small to have a supply that long. Stopping HRT is also not the end of the world. Menopause is Cis women basically running out of estrogen and it's rough but they live. If there's still a source of testosterone (no orchie) that is not going undo some estrogen changes like breast growth.
Others in the thread can answer as to options based on geography. Some doses of estrogen injection are quite standard. Some of our foremothers thousands of years ago were eating cheese made with fermented pregnant mare's piss and chewing black cohosh and just kind of winging it for their whole lives. A couple of years of winging with the modern estrogen might be fine.
- Yea I know, fair enough
  I thought you had to change them almost monthly cause they get "cored"?
  Would actually be interested in reading more about this
  Thankyou!
  
  I thought you had to change them almost monthly cause they get "cored"?
  That's what the "official" sources will tell you but it's just wasting vials. With proper care and safety checks (checking for discoloration as XiaCobolt said and any suspended particles), people are using vials safely for at least more than a year. That includes me, I do that. I used to fear DIY sources and DIY in general but, being in the same position as you – i.e., with no access to adequate healthcare – eventually jumped the gun and it was the best decision in my life.
  What made me finally choose DIY is partially the realisation that "official" doctors don't know shit about trans experiences, commonly prescribe harmful or ineffective regimens – both happened to me in the past – and mostly just don't care about us more than for a curiosity.
  
  I thought you had to change them almost monthly cause they get "cored"?
  Oh I meant an unopened vial can sit on a shelf for 5 years and doesn't take up much room, if people can afford to plan that far in advance. "Coring" is real but also kind of overblown, there's techniques and equipment to reduce the chances, the more concerning thing is discoloration etc that suggests containments have entered or the vial has gone bad. I don't do DIY HRT but have investigated it a bunch in case things turn sour here in Australia.
  Would actually be interested in reading more about this
  Trans people throughout history have come up with ways to have gender affirming care. One particular group are the Enarei from ancient Scythia, who were feminised Priestesses assigned male at birth. It's speculated they would consume Licorice and Black Coshosh, herbs that have anti-androgenic effects (post-menopausal women take black cohosh even now as a supplements). Pregnant mare's have large amounts of estrogen in their urine. One of the first modern HRT medications was Premarin derived from Mare's piss. The concentrations were still quite low, so they would be fermented sometimes into beer, sometimes into cheese.
  Edit: Sorry the wikipedia sucks because they don't mention all the HRT stuff, I'll try to remember a good source, but that's the name for example of a group to look into.

Having been on HRT for 1-year, I haven't yet noticed muscle loss personally. Was also one of the things I was worried about. I'm not particularly strong anyways, but being the tallest in the family means I have an advantage in moving large furniture regardless of strength.
Seems more like an argument for not getting an orchi. You could always quit afaik (granted, slowly weaning off is probably safer). Stockpiling some vials gives you some wiggle room as well and even if you had no stockpile and got an orchi, going a few years without any hormones isn't gonna kill you. I got lasik mostly because I didn't like being dependent on glasses, so I get the sentiment. OTOH, I already take other medicines daily and my QoL would be significantly worse without them, but I'd survive.
Any virtual options? Granted, you should be checking blood levels occasionally. Not sure what the at-home options are.
- Alrighty thankyou!
  Pretty sure having no hormones increases osteoporosis risks and a plethora of other things I think? And fair enough
  I dont know any virtual options at all and if there are they are probably too expensive tbh
  
  Yes, but that's only a risk from long-term lack of hormones. Puberty blockers are fine for a few years, for example. Taking E doesn't usually permanently prevent T production afaik. But I think its possible you go through typical menopause symptoms as your body tries to adapt?
  Best of luck!

You don’t necessarily need to see a doctor in order to a get help from a clinician and a prescription. Informed consent clinics could help you. Erin has an article with a map here. It’s USAmerican-centric, but it has some international spread. i can’t personally speak to all of your concerns, but i think the estrogen dependence thing might not be as bad you think? Sorry if that sounds rude. People start and stop HRT all the time, often for financial reasons. It’s not ideal, but it’s not, like, bad for you. Physical changes do reverse when you stop, but i would say the mental benefits of taking it whenever you can are worth it.
- I am not in the west and there are no informed consent clinics, thank you for trying though
  Fair enough regarding stopping/starting HRT. Always had a fear of "damaging" myself which is why I am avoidant of DIY cause like I mentioned I do not trust myself lol
  Thanku!

You should get a weapon of some kind if you can. A gun, pepper spray, even a self defense flashlight is probably better then getting in a physical fight.
Like others said, unless you get an orchi you can go back. Also like- do you want your whole life on T? I don't know how old you are but, I really don't want my situation getting worse. Something to think about.
You won't fuck up your body with E. Diy is safe and pharmaceutical grade. There's a lot of leeway with levels before they become dangerous, as I understand it too much is usually just ineffective. Its chill, you'll be fine. Honestly I'd trust any trans person over a cis doctor. Way better care and outcomes from what I've seen.

maintained the washboard even though i barely worked out even pre-e. working on gaining weight now and it's slowly being hidden I think.
also i mean you can choose not to take e to not be dependent on it your whole life, and in doing so I guess you can just not transition.
as for estrogen safety, estrogen is estrogen. you can go buy it "diy" from a pharmacy if you're so concerned. and dosages and guidelines aren't that difficult, use a "starter"/"typical" dosage and then get a bloodtest if you want to be doubly sure. A "legit" endo won't care any more than you will, just from experience with all doctors, and given how rare we are, they are more likely to fuck our doses up than we are simply because they don't know and doctors just can't seem to admit that they're not omniscient.

26 comments