'We Are Witnessing a New Brain Drain' as Scientists Flee America for France
A French university says it's providing safe harbor to American scientists from Yale, Stanford, NASA, and the NIH.
It will take me sometime to save enough money, but once I do I am fleeing as well.
Back in 1945 you know how many people America took in who did any kind of scientific work. wernher von braun may be the most famous. That was just to insure that America would be leaders in the world. Now it doesn't seem America wants to have anything to do with leading the world in any field to progresses america as a country.
Wdym? We already have Musk, Thiel, Zuckerberg, Horowitz, Yarvin, etc.
Literally people that try to rip the US apart and privatize it.
I suddenly like a lot of things about France.
I have a vps with OVH which is French, and pretty great.
I'll 100% sign up with eutel (?) satellite internet if it's ever available here.
I've also been using mistral l, a French LLM, to draft some documents lately.
I left the US for Germany almost 2 years ago now. I'm a software/aerospace engineer. It was like time traveling to the future in some ways, worker right are way better here and 6 weeks of vacation has cemented that I'll never go back.
Now I just need to do my part to make sure conservatives don't ruin this country any more than they already have. Not excited for Merz to get into power and continue selling out his country.
Given the AfD results I wouldnt be sure if it couldnt get much much worse.
Tbh cost of living in germany has been rising a lot and a lot of public infrastructure has been severely underfunded.
I still know people leaving for the US, but given recent developments this has been getting rarer
Good for us. Very very good for us.
Makes me wonder where all that money is going? I mean they must be making billions in those funding cuts. Are they all gonna funnel that money into Russia and tech oligarch's pockets?
They want to create an oligarchy in the US.
Privatise everything and give them to their billionaire buddies to run.
Imagine the money you can make by selling weather data, gathered by government sensors. Or a private VA organisation with an exclusive contract with the government.
Selling to who?
If the masses are penniless serfs, who is going to buy the services provided? One of the other 8 billionaires who own the country?
They really haven't considered the longer term here. Ultimately, they'll be kings of a worthless backward shitheap, despised and shunned by the international community, their best and most promising exfiltrated to the rest of the world then fenced off to rot into obscurity.
Like North Korea, more or less.
Brain drain also shifts the country rightward. Worked well for Fidesz, will work well for the Republicans.
The US is an oligarchy already. It has been since at least the late 70s. It is just that now the system is falling apart.
Makes me wonder where all that money is going?
Scroll down to spending categories. Most money is spent on things like social security, medicare, veteran care, unemployment insurance, and health. Defense is 13% (and absolutely needs to be audited ASAP). Interest payments on debt is now 13% and growing fast. This is why it's important to at least reduce the deficit as fast as possible. Imagine how much good the government could do with another $400B each year without those interest payments. (well, maybe not this government, but the next one).
yes
Not to Russia probably, not directly at least. Just to oligarchs. But not just tech oligarchs, oil barons will obviously take their share, no oligarchs will be left hanging
40..is not a lot
Barely anyone is actually a researcher at an university. Science is a pyramid scheme in a sense and everyone cut away to form the top is someone selling their soul to the industry as an engineer. Hence actual numbers are small in every field of research.
That's at a single university.
The low prospects of jobs for undergrad who don't have enough experience for grad schools also turns people completely away from being a scientists to, unless you have research published or significant experience in lab work prior to graduating you won't get far, it's also harder to get into them health, like
I feel like the amount of stupid per unit volume in America is indeed increasing.
But decreasing per kg :)
kg
"Stupid communist units that nobody understands"
I wish I was a scientist so I could go too.
And frankly, this is just another parallel to WWII and Nazi Germany's rise. The non-fascist scientists and people fled to safer pastures.
Take me with you, I'm neither an average fighter nor a brilliant scientist, but you can't live a trans-sister to die in this wasteland of burgers and guns!
But be careful, there could be sleeper agents amongst them
Myself included lol.
Moi même aussi lol
G'day knackers, what's crack-a-lackin?
French is such a beautiful language.
Left for Taiwan in the first Trump presidency. Haven't been back since.
When you gonna go full China? Feel like that's the best bet at this point.
I prefer to call it West Taiwan, at this point, China needs democracy and what best to bring it than Taiwan.
Jealous! Taiwan is an amazing place
Come visit. We are a very welcoming country and love foreigners and tourist!
Cool, what you're doing over there?
Website optimization. My customers are global so I can work remotely.
I'm doing my part fleeing to Sweden, granted I'm a programmer and game dev so not a scientist. I'm done letting the US profit off my skills though
Don't forget to get rid of your US citizenship or they'll still profit off your work.
i thought it was just that if the country you’re in taxed you less than what the US would, then you have to pay the difference to the IRS?
… and there’s no way in hell the US taxes less than sweden (and for anyone that hasn’t had an ice pick lobotomy that’s a good thing)
*edit: foreign tax credit
I want more European game developers, so yeah good on you
You will like it, Sweden has a nice relaxed working culture where we actually care about how people feel at work.
Welcome home to the capital country of gaming!
Thank you! I'm so excited to make my way. Just hoping the US holds out long enough for me to make the move I'm definitely a bit scared with how fast it's all happening here
I'm in the process of getting certified to be a nurse in New Zealand. Fuck this country.
I assume you're taking a big hit salary-wise (a trade-off I would make, for the record).
Certain stuff, and especially rent, is a lot cheaper in Europe, though.
It was a pretty big shock for us when so many of the Ukrainian refugees that arrived during recent years came in SUVs, and they looked quite new, too. But in Ukraine, one of Europe's poorest countries by far, cars cost a lot less, too.
I've been saying it since 2016: the EU should start granting political asylum to people from the US.
Nope don't do it. U will get MAGA. Be super careful vetting anything that loves trump and musk. I myself planning on retiring early. 45 yo software engineer. I will end up in SEA in next 4 years. Getting ready to sell all my investment property here. America is not going to last for too long.
I think we don't want open entrance policies in place that would make it easier for MAGAs to come over. Best to have some kind of requirement which filters out the MAGAs as much as possible, say minimum education level to get a work or digital nomad visa or only people from "at risk groups" such as Transexuals qualifying for asylum.
Were I am now, Portugal, there's pretty open immigration policy for Brazil with no actual minimum requirements and the result is that we imported a ton of far right muppets from there, to the point that in the last Brazilian Presidential election the proportion of voters for Bolsonaro in Portugal (as Brasilians can vote from abroad) was a lot larger than in Brasil - since Brasilians resident in Portugal can get Portuguese nationality after 5 years, this also help fuel the rise of the Far Right locally.
Having some kind of reasonably easy and fair system to filter out the Fascist assholes would be much better.
I moved from the U.S. to Germany in 2020.
My running joke since was wondering whether I’d be eligible for citizenship or asylum first….
Almost over the finish line for being eligible for citizenship, but I feel like asylum isn’t that far off.
You don't need asylum if you are a legal resident. Asylum is the most insecure form of permit, especially in Germany, where the society is currently getting more and more hostile to migration, including labeling countries like Afghanistan as "safe countries of origin" and organizing deportations with the Taliban.
Reverse the brain drain of the 1930s.
and 1940s
Sure, 1930s...
There are already a handful of good digital nomad (and other) visa options that are really tempting.
I haven't done a TON of research here, just watched a lot of youtube videos discussing the process, daydreaming of placing some distance between myself and Trump. There are a handful of countries across Europe I'd jump at the chance to move to if there were reasonable odds to get permanent residence or citizenship.
I'd like to see numbers at scale. I don't see too many people taking pay cuts yet
Canada seriously needs to make a big show of offering the same thing. It's now or never.
Or, you know, force investors to sell.
A lot of scientists get paid terribly in Canada unfortunately. Certain industries are non existent or exist to support the US industry (mainly pharma)
Aix Marseille University
It's not the best place or they want to attract some people for a better reputation after COVID issues.
Raoult is know full conspiracy theories.
Need any IT?
As long as you use OpenSource stuff
Germany needs plenty. But only the cheap ones with expert knowledge. That’s not how they would word it though
How though. I don't mind working for cheap since I am almost retiring anyways. Need something to keep me busy if I don't have to stress about politics.
Well, the correct german word is to say 'Fachkräftemangel' which in my experience translates to 'We need someone with 20+ years of experience, that we can pay like an intern'
If only I had money....
Lol calling this brain drain is ridiculousnin my opinion. Nazi germany didntnhave brain drain, they also removed the peoplenwho didnt think like they wanted them to.
Nazi Germany absolutely did have brain drain though? A lot of the scientists working on the manhattan project were german, but fled the country/were forced out.
But if you force someone out how is that brain drain? I thought it meant when lower income/quality of life countries "loose" their "smart people" to countries with better living standards. I wouldnt refer to it as brain drain if you do it on purpose. But it seems like i have the wrong definition for the word. Thing is it doesnt really matter, i like that all the smart people from the us are moving to europe, we just have to grab this chance and rise up in industries dominated by fascists like spacex. Btw what is the obsession with space travel among fascist leaders? Sorru if i rambled for a bit too long.
May I introduce you to this fine gentleman?
pardonnez-moi, puis-je vous intéresser à un programmeur?
Reste chez toi.
Y'all need data analysts?
Data analysts with decades of wine industry experience?
I know a guy...
Sadly, France doesn't have a very well developed wine industry yet!
If only some Americans could show them the way.. I'm sure all they're missing are some sick viral marketing campaigns, maybe replace the corks with sports-drink style suck-on plastic caps and some bold colourful text on the labels. Of course we'll also have to replace the grapes with corn syrup to improve margins.
You may have a look to Bordeaux's University. There are litterally school and research center for wine 🤣
https://www.u-bordeaux.fr/universite/organisation-et-fonctionnement/composantes-de-formation/isvv
$16M for 3 scientists for 3 years? I hope those scientists are bringing their whole labs with them?
Top level scientists/professors are like famous sports players. Recruiting them is a prestige boost which attracts students and employees, but also can have very direct results if they manage some breakthrough or novel solution.
Talking about labs. Building, organizing and running those is far harder than spending money on equipment usually.
Why not? That's ~1.77 million per year per scientist. Yes, that is a lot of money. But if you think about it, those scientists might be able to start multibillion dollar economies. They can train hundreds of experts in their field. And some lousy CEO of some stupid company gets paid more
i hope they are engineers or doctors. not the "science" of gender studies. lol
You got a problem with people wanting to not be pieces of shit huh?
Anyways here is some good book recommendations for everyone else.
1: My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness by Nagata Kabi
2: Fun Home by Alison Bechdel (Yes the same Bechdel behind the Bechdel test)
3: How We Fight for Our Lives by Saeed Jones
I hope you have the day you deserve. lol.
What's wrong with gender studies? Fiji has three genders!
France is crushing it lately it seems.
I was planning to try and immigrate to Europe from the shithole country I was born into. The last thing I need is Americans competing with me for the same. Grrrrr
what's your shithole country like and do you wanna trade
India 😔
do you want my real opinion? ok here it goes: if you were born in a shithole then the % is high that you are a net negative economic contributor for the EU.
but you are on lemmy and write english so you cant be that bad.
This guy is getting ratio'd in this thread for insanely stupid takes. But this one is wild. Are you saying they should stay in their shit hole country and make it better themselves? It's their responsibility to fix a COUNTRY? It's their own freedom to decide what to do and where to go. If they're from the EU and a shithole country it's likely an eastern EU war ravaged country by world antagonist Putin. I'd wanna gtfo too
til paperclip in French is trombone, as the instrument, i see some resemblance
I for one welcome our new French overlords
Idk if this has anything to do with the Article focusing on France, but I recently learnt Gizmodo was bought by a French-Swiss company.
I’m in the same boat. Just be consistent and persistent. It’s a lot harder that you’re divorced with kids, but you could make a good argument for the school quality in France for your kids if they’re young enough to adapt to French. Study the language as much as possible before moving there; the closer you are to fluency, the easier you’ll have it. Paris is a crutch, explore small cities to practice your French.
I voted for Trump and have to take Life Saving Medication once a week and I DONT CARE! There's NOTHING Scientists have done that GOD cant!
Might want a /s tag on this before you get downvoted to oblivion.
K
(Check the account profile, guys)
No.
Its a parody acct
Wait...not sarcasm??!
This so called "GOD", is he in the room right now ?